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I’ve also worked the other side of the fence, working with law enforcement and the US Government on computer-involved national security issues, most notably in

by n3rdy 14y ago

I’ve also worked the other side of the fence, working with law enforcement and the US Government on computer-involved national security issues, most notably in the apprehension of Bradley Manning for leaking military and diplomatic secrets to Wikileaks. This isn't something to be proud of.

_k 14y ago
Exactly what I was thinking.
mpyne 14y ago
Why? I ask this because many politically-minded hackers are under the misapprehension that Bradley Manning was purely a whistleblower, which is not the case.
- georgemcbay 14y ago
  My thoughts on Bradley Manning are more complicated than the simplistic "Free Bradley!" or "Hang Bradley!" extremes one often sees when it comes to that case. I don't fully support what he did and I think he was wrong to do it in the manner in which he did and thus he deserves some punishment. I also think he stands as an unfortunate symbol of how the idea of the writ of habeas corpus is completely dead in America, which sucks. As it relates to Lamo, though, I think it is clear that the way Lamo went about convincing Manning to reveal what he had done while convincing him that he (Lamo) was a journalist and priest and thus Manning would be protected from disclosure was hugely unethical and marks him as one of the great asshats of all time.
  - mpyne 14y ago
    I think the concern about habeus corpus is valid, but more for those like the Gitmo detainees than Pfc. Manning per se. He leaked classified information, and having to build an entire legal infrastructure and trial around that properly, without having any eventual sentence thrown out on a technicality, is going to take time and effort. Let's face it, if it were up the Army he'd already be convicted and spending the next couple of decades at least playing cards at Ft. Leavenworth. As far as Lamo, I agree in general with the description of asshattery. But still, if Manning actually thought Lamo were a priest then I have to wonder about his capacity for critical thinking. And either way, I find it at least a bit ironic that Lamo managed to extract accurate information from Manning, under false pretenses, immediately after Manning extracted accurate information from the U.S. Government, under false pretenses. But only one of those two swore to protect the information in question under penalty of law.
- aqme28 14y ago
  Isn't he? He released evidence of scores of crimes and warcrimes. His actions were a major catalyst for the Arab Spring, yet something for which he has literally been tortured.
  - mpyne 14y ago
    If I blow up a bomb in the middle of a populated area and just so happen to take out a bunch of bad guys that doesn't make my actions right. This is true even if the bomb only kills a bunch of bad guys, because the action was completely reckless, without regard to collateral damage, and only by luck gets the job done. Likewise we wouldn't condone getting the GMail password of a child kidnapper by releasing the GMail passwords of all adult males. Whistleblowers report specific crimes, they don't just mysqldump a database and netcat that shit to foreign-entity.co.au and hope they treat the data properly. But let's talk about his actions catalyzed the Arab Spring. How many Tunisian, Libyan, Egyptian and Syrian lives does Pfc. Manning have on his hands then? We blame the U.S. for all of the fatalities related to Iraq, for example, even though the U.S. didn't directly undertake all of those killings. So why would Manning get a pass for this? As far as torture, Prevention of Suicide Watch is an actual prisoner status one can be in, especially if one makes jokes about killing themselves (as Manning's own lawyer admitted he did). The military judge presiding over Manning's hearing agrees that he was held under suicide watch without enough justification and has reduced his eventual sentence (it's unclear by how much though). But either way, I would humbly submit that someone with military training should be intelligent enough to not joke about committing suicide, especially when part of a case with extreme media interest where actually committing suicide would bring the "Eye of Sauron" of negative attention on the detention facility. You don't even have to take my word for that; just look at the reaction to Aaron Swartz's suicide.
    - aqme28 14y ago
      Blowing up a crowded population to kill a few "bad guys" is exactly one of the crimes he is accused of releasing. Aside from that, it has nothing to do with him. He is often compared to famed whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, who released thousands of documents indiscriminately that had a lower security designation than anything Manning released. Plus even Robert Gates called the negative impact of Manning's leaks "fairly modest." It wasn't just a SQL dump. Manning found evidence of crimes, and he took what looked suspicious. Read his chatlogs with Lamo if you must.
- deleted 14y ago
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by n3rdy 14y ago

_k 14y ago

Exactly what I was thinking.

mpyne 14y ago

Why? I ask this because many politically-minded hackers are under the misapprehension that Bradley Manning was purely a whistleblower, which is not the case.

georgemcbay 14y ago
My thoughts on Bradley Manning are more complicated than the simplistic "Free Bradley!" or "Hang Bradley!" extremes one often sees when it comes to that case. I don't fully support what he did and I think he was wrong to do it in the manner in which he did and thus he deserves some punishment. I also think he stands as an unfortunate symbol of how the idea of the writ of habeas corpus is completely dead in America, which sucks. As it relates to Lamo, though, I think it is clear that the way Lamo went about convincing Manning to reveal what he had done while convincing him that he (Lamo) was a journalist and priest and thus Manning would be protected from disclosure was hugely unethical and marks him as one of the great asshats of all time.
- mpyne 14y ago
  I think the concern about habeus corpus is valid, but more for those like the Gitmo detainees than Pfc. Manning per se. He leaked classified information, and having to build an entire legal infrastructure and trial around that properly, without having any eventual sentence thrown out on a technicality, is going to take time and effort. Let's face it, if it were up the Army he'd already be convicted and spending the next couple of decades at least playing cards at Ft. Leavenworth. As far as Lamo, I agree in general with the description of asshattery. But still, if Manning actually thought Lamo were a priest then I have to wonder about his capacity for critical thinking. And either way, I find it at least a bit ironic that Lamo managed to extract accurate information from Manning, under false pretenses, immediately after Manning extracted accurate information from the U.S. Government, under false pretenses. But only one of those two swore to protect the information in question under penalty of law.
aqme28 14y ago
Isn't he? He released evidence of scores of crimes and warcrimes. His actions were a major catalyst for the Arab Spring, yet something for which he has literally been tortured.
- mpyne 14y ago
  If I blow up a bomb in the middle of a populated area and just so happen to take out a bunch of bad guys that doesn't make my actions right. This is true even if the bomb only kills a bunch of bad guys, because the action was completely reckless, without regard to collateral damage, and only by luck gets the job done. Likewise we wouldn't condone getting the GMail password of a child kidnapper by releasing the GMail passwords of all adult males. Whistleblowers report specific crimes, they don't just mysqldump a database and netcat that shit to foreign-entity.co.au and hope they treat the data properly. But let's talk about his actions catalyzed the Arab Spring. How many Tunisian, Libyan, Egyptian and Syrian lives does Pfc. Manning have on his hands then? We blame the U.S. for all of the fatalities related to Iraq, for example, even though the U.S. didn't directly undertake all of those killings. So why would Manning get a pass for this? As far as torture, Prevention of Suicide Watch is an actual prisoner status one can be in, especially if one makes jokes about killing themselves (as Manning's own lawyer admitted he did). The military judge presiding over Manning's hearing agrees that he was held under suicide watch without enough justification and has reduced his eventual sentence (it's unclear by how much though). But either way, I would humbly submit that someone with military training should be intelligent enough to not joke about committing suicide, especially when part of a case with extreme media interest where actually committing suicide would bring the "Eye of Sauron" of negative attention on the detention facility. You don't even have to take my word for that; just look at the reaction to Aaron Swartz's suicide.
  - aqme28 14y ago
    Blowing up a crowded population to kill a few "bad guys" is exactly one of the crimes he is accused of releasing. Aside from that, it has nothing to do with him. He is often compared to famed whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, who released thousands of documents indiscriminately that had a lower security designation than anything Manning released. Plus even Robert Gates called the negative impact of Manning's leaks "fairly modest." It wasn't just a SQL dump. Manning found evidence of crimes, and he took what looked suspicious. Read his chatlogs with Lamo if you must.
deleted 14y ago
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