7 ms·

If for anything, I hope he wins so he can go back outside, and live a decent life.

twelvechairs 14y ago
There's no guarantee that winning a senate seat would allow him to exit the UK. That said it would add considerable political pressure...
- jacques_chester 14y ago
  Neither major party really thinks much of Assange. There might be some feeble protests but in practice the UK would be in the same position they are now.
  - vidarh 14y ago
    Maybe not pressure from Australia. But a whole load of other people, including governments, would take the opportunity to turn it into a PR nightmare.
    - jacques_chester 14y ago
      This would materially affect any Australian government how, exactly? A particularly spicy Monbiot column? Gosh!
      - vidarh 14y ago
        Who is talking about the Australian government? Nobody cares about the Australian government. It's the UK government that would be the target. We can argue whether or not they would care any more, but given the amount of time senior UK politicians have already spent talking about what is ostensibly "just" a normal extradition case, and spent trying to undo the diplomatic uproar caused by ever-so-slightly hinting they might be able to legally enter the embassy by force, it'll at the very least be fun watching them squirm.
        jacques_chester 14y ago
        Sorry, I misread you. I don't think the UK government would be fussed either. If nothing else, they are legally required to arrest Assange if he leaves the Ecuadorean embassy, regardless of what title he has.
        vidarh 14y ago
        They may be legally required to arrest Assange if he falls in their laps or he happens to walk up to a police officer (though I'm not sure if there'd be any legal consequences if they failed to arrest him even then - I doubt it), but they most certainly are not legally bound to invest massive amounts of resources to make it happen. UK police make judgement calls about how best to deploy police resources to enforce arrest warrants or chase down suspects or throw people out of the country every day. It is naive at best to assume that the 24/7 guard kept on him has anything to do with legal obligations. It could be "just" because it'd be embarrassing if he managed to leave due to the public profile of his case, but there's not really much room to doubt that the amount of police resources spent on him is political.
        jacques_chester 14y ago
        Two constables standing out front of the embassy is hardly "massive resources". They know where Assange is. They know that the UK is obliged to arrest him. And they know that he has snubbed the English justice system which I imagine they feel a bit dark about. Basically the amount of conspiracy theorising around the Assange case is getting flatly silly. It's the HN/Reddit equivalent of truthers and birthers. An embarrassment.
        vidarh 14y ago
        > Two constables standing out front of the embassy is hardly "massive resources". It is far more than they spend on a lot of people that are wanted. 24/7 means shifts, which means we're talking about 10+ people full time to have 2 people stationed there at any time. I can think of any number of places where investing 10+ officers full time would do far more positive for society - including preventing serious crimes. > And they know that he has snubbed the English justice system which I imagine they feel a bit dark about. So in other words: He is not being treated as everyone else. He's being singled out for political reasons. Maybe there's nothing more to it than that, as I've already stated. > Basically the amount of conspiracy theorising around the Assange case is getting flatly silly. Ad hominems don't increase the validity of your own arguments. I don't know if Assange is guilty or not. I can tell from what he has admitted that he acted like a total douche, but not whether or not he committed a crime. What I do know, is that the behaviour I've seen from the prosecution is bizarre enough that I fully understand his reaction - whether he is guilty or not. You've not provided a single argument to counteract that. Your arguments repeatedly focus on semantics or details that don't make the slightest bit of difference to addressing the blatant ways in which the prosecution of this case differs from the norm. That does not mean there's a conspiracy. It doesn't even necessarily mean that there's anything wrong going on. Maybe it's "just" a boneheaded prosecutor. That does not help Assange, and that does mean that there's every reason to keep asking the question of why they consistently fail to answer the questions around this case truthfully (such as their blatantly false claim that they can not question him outside of Sweden).
- chris_wot 14y ago
  There's no guarantee he'd actually win ether :-(
  - jacques_chester 14y ago
    Single-issue candidates irk me, so I'm ok with that. Honestly, I miss the Australian Democrats. They were boring, sensible centrists. And it was great.
    - chris_wot 14y ago
      I'm what you would call a Sydney Anglican - characterised by a largely conservative worldview. The only party I can see that is worth voting for, ironically, is The Greens.
      - vacri 14y ago
        Check out the Sex Party. Despite the stupid name, they're actually a civil liberties party - equality for all, privacy, net neutrality, that sort of thing. At least at the last federal election they were.
        jacques_chester 14y ago
        They're a gimmick party and we all know it. Numerous parties have stood under those policies without resorting to cheap marketing tactics.
        vacri 14y ago
        Meh, the greens are a gimmick party. Even the democrats were a gimmick party - their slogan was for a long time not even about their own party ('keep the bastards honest'). I'd much rather the Sex Party get the last senate seat than the DLP (who nabbed it in Vic last time around). Pretty much any party that hasn't had a serious go in power is a gimmick party, simply due to lack of experience.
Kiro 14y ago
You don't want him to stand trial first?
- flyinRyan 14y ago
  The charges were already dropped, then the prosecutor mysteriously replaced and the case reopened. The whole thing is a farce so there's no reason to bother with any trial.
  - Kiro 14y ago
    Nothing mysterious going on here. It's not uncommon for another prosecutor to reopen a case if there are reasonable grounds for it. You can't seriously argue that someone who is accused of rape should just be set free like that. Guilty or not he should stand trial.
    - cabalamat 14y ago
      > Guilty or not he should stand trial. If there weren't a lot of major governments that really really want to get him, so that he could be guaranteed a fair trial, then of course he should stand trial.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
    - cynicalkane 14y ago
      > can't seriously argue that someone who is accused of rape should just be set free like that If there's no substance to the allegations, yes, the person accused should absolutely just be set free like that. This is obvious.
      - jacques_chester 14y ago
        The allegations have been repeatedly upheld as substantial by multiple jurists and court officers in multiple countries.
nemof 14y ago
He could do that right now.

There's no guarantee that winning a senate seat would allow him to exit the UK. That said it would add considerable political pressure...

jacques_chester 14y ago
Neither major party really thinks much of Assange. There might be some feeble protests but in practice the UK would be in the same position they are now.
- vidarh 14y ago
  Maybe not pressure from Australia. But a whole load of other people, including governments, would take the opportunity to turn it into a PR nightmare.
  - jacques_chester 14y ago
    This would materially affect any Australian government how, exactly? A particularly spicy Monbiot column? Gosh!
    - vidarh 14y ago
      Who is talking about the Australian government? Nobody cares about the Australian government. It's the UK government that would be the target. We can argue whether or not they would care any more, but given the amount of time senior UK politicians have already spent talking about what is ostensibly "just" a normal extradition case, and spent trying to undo the diplomatic uproar caused by ever-so-slightly hinting they might be able to legally enter the embassy by force, it'll at the very least be fun watching them squirm.
      - jacques_chester 14y ago
        Sorry, I misread you. I don't think the UK government would be fussed either. If nothing else, they are legally required to arrest Assange if he leaves the Ecuadorean embassy, regardless of what title he has.
        vidarh 14y ago
        They may be legally required to arrest Assange if he falls in their laps or he happens to walk up to a police officer (though I'm not sure if there'd be any legal consequences if they failed to arrest him even then - I doubt it), but they most certainly are not legally bound to invest massive amounts of resources to make it happen. UK police make judgement calls about how best to deploy police resources to enforce arrest warrants or chase down suspects or throw people out of the country every day. It is naive at best to assume that the 24/7 guard kept on him has anything to do with legal obligations. It could be "just" because it'd be embarrassing if he managed to leave due to the public profile of his case, but there's not really much room to doubt that the amount of police resources spent on him is political.
        jacques_chester 14y ago
        Two constables standing out front of the embassy is hardly "massive resources". They know where Assange is. They know that the UK is obliged to arrest him. And they know that he has snubbed the English justice system which I imagine they feel a bit dark about. Basically the amount of conspiracy theorising around the Assange case is getting flatly silly. It's the HN/Reddit equivalent of truthers and birthers. An embarrassment.
        vidarh 14y ago
        > Two constables standing out front of the embassy is hardly "massive resources". It is far more than they spend on a lot of people that are wanted. 24/7 means shifts, which means we're talking about 10+ people full time to have 2 people stationed there at any time. I can think of any number of places where investing 10+ officers full time would do far more positive for society - including preventing serious crimes. > And they know that he has snubbed the English justice system which I imagine they feel a bit dark about. So in other words: He is not being treated as everyone else. He's being singled out for political reasons. Maybe there's nothing more to it than that, as I've already stated. > Basically the amount of conspiracy theorising around the Assange case is getting flatly silly. Ad hominems don't increase the validity of your own arguments. I don't know if Assange is guilty or not. I can tell from what he has admitted that he acted like a total douche, but not whether or not he committed a crime. What I do know, is that the behaviour I've seen from the prosecution is bizarre enough that I fully understand his reaction - whether he is guilty or not. You've not provided a single argument to counteract that. Your arguments repeatedly focus on semantics or details that don't make the slightest bit of difference to addressing the blatant ways in which the prosecution of this case differs from the norm. That does not mean there's a conspiracy. It doesn't even necessarily mean that there's anything wrong going on. Maybe it's "just" a boneheaded prosecutor. That does not help Assange, and that does mean that there's every reason to keep asking the question of why they consistently fail to answer the questions around this case truthfully (such as their blatantly false claim that they can not question him outside of Sweden).
chris_wot 14y ago
There's no guarantee he'd actually win ether :-(
- jacques_chester 14y ago
  Single-issue candidates irk me, so I'm ok with that. Honestly, I miss the Australian Democrats. They were boring, sensible centrists. And it was great.
  - chris_wot 14y ago
    I'm what you would call a Sydney Anglican - characterised by a largely conservative worldview. The only party I can see that is worth voting for, ironically, is The Greens.
    - vacri 14y ago
      Check out the Sex Party. Despite the stupid name, they're actually a civil liberties party - equality for all, privacy, net neutrality, that sort of thing. At least at the last federal election they were.
      - jacques_chester 14y ago
        They're a gimmick party and we all know it. Numerous parties have stood under those policies without resorting to cheap marketing tactics.
        vacri 14y ago
        Meh, the greens are a gimmick party. Even the democrats were a gimmick party - their slogan was for a long time not even about their own party ('keep the bastards honest'). I'd much rather the Sex Party get the last senate seat than the DLP (who nabbed it in Vic last time around). Pretty much any party that hasn't had a serious go in power is a gimmick party, simply due to lack of experience.

Kiro 14y ago

You don't want him to stand trial first?

flyinRyan 14y ago
The charges were already dropped, then the prosecutor mysteriously replaced and the case reopened. The whole thing is a farce so there's no reason to bother with any trial.
- Kiro 14y ago
  Nothing mysterious going on here. It's not uncommon for another prosecutor to reopen a case if there are reasonable grounds for it. You can't seriously argue that someone who is accused of rape should just be set free like that. Guilty or not he should stand trial.
  - cabalamat 14y ago
    > Guilty or not he should stand trial. If there weren't a lot of major governments that really really want to get him, so that he could be guaranteed a fair trial, then of course he should stand trial.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
  - cynicalkane 14y ago
    > can't seriously argue that someone who is accused of rape should just be set free like that If there's no substance to the allegations, yes, the person accused should absolutely just be set free like that. This is obvious.
    - jacques_chester 14y ago
      The allegations have been repeatedly upheld as substantial by multiple jurists and court officers in multiple countries.

nemof 14y ago

He could do that right now.