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I have seen close friends and relatives work their way through depression (varying levels), so unfortunate as it is, here is the answer (I KNOW the following so

by param 14y ago

I have seen close friends and relatives work their way through depression (varying levels), so unfortunate as it is, here is the answer (I KNOW the following sounds crazy - even to me - but this is what is considered rational and obvious by suicidal folks) Telling someone makes it likely that they will try to stop you. If you have decided to take your life, the worst thing you want (in some cases) is for someone try and prevent it from happening. Also, depression never leaves you alone, so there will be multiple points in your life where you will think about taking your own life, and you will yourself doubt whether you will go through with it up to the point of pulling the trigger, so you don't want to tell someone and "waste their time" if you are not sure you are going to do it. Its pretty crazy how these things work, and the best way out for me in helping such people has been to physically take them to a professional, every time, every session, until someone certifies them as no longer depressed. Nothing else has worked for me and I know I am not qualified or capable in talking someone out of a suicide attempt.

lusr 14y ago
There are other reasons too. Having been there myself, the big one I've seen in myself and with friends in similar situations is that the depressed individual feels worthless and "unfixable" at their core because of their: - past behaviour (e.g. they did something considered seriously socially unacceptable and feel they can't tell anybody lest they be ostracised forever, or people already know about it and they are ostracised leading to feelings of no hope of escape); or - past experiences (e.g. they have a string of failed relationships they feel responsible for and believe they'll never be happy and every day seeing happy couples on Facebook or in the shopping mall is like a stab in the heart). At the root of it is hopelessness, which also covers: - future expectations (e.g. they're trapped in a very bad situation, e.g. money, relationship, crime, etc., and can see no way of escape) In these desperate situations, they feel too guilty, hopeless, ashamed and/or disgusted to discuss their circumstances with anybody, and besides, in their minds, it wouldn't accomplish anything because they "know" they're broken ("I can't live with myself after what I did", "Alice was the only person who could love somebody like me", etc.) or screwed ("I can't go to prison", "If anybody ever finds out I'll never get a decent job/lover ever again", "Nobody can replace Alice, I screwed up forever", etc.) and there's no way out. Perhaps the saddest thing about suicidal depression is that many (note: I'm not claiming all, or even a majority, OR in the case of Aaron OR Jody, simply 'many'!) of these scenarios seem to stem from a dysfunctional belief system and a lack of introspective coping skills that I imagine could easily be taught, in the form of life skills based on cognitive behavioural therapy, to school teenage children. Many parents lack these skills (through no fault of their own), and pass dysfunctional beliefs and thought processes onto their children (entirely unconsciously). It's fascinating to me that such a serious problem - the #2 non-biological cause of death, behind road traffic accidents - receives so little real attention [1]. People get upset about wars, murders, have extensive fire safety requirements, covers for their pools, hide their poison and medicines from children, panic over their children being abducted or falling pregnant etc., yet suicidal depression? I don't believe I knew a thing about it until I had to learn quickly - to help myself. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate
- robg 14y ago
  And the most recent study suggest suicide has now passed car accidents. http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/09/20/suicide-now-kills-more-americans-than-car-crashes-study http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/09/2...
  - mikecane 14y ago
    On Twitter, I would follow a 911 tweeter. I could not believe how many people were killing themselves by jumping from heights in NYC. And they never made the MSM news at all.
xijuan 14y ago
I don't think he necessarily means that the person should tell someone his/her suicidal thoughts. I think he means that the person should tell someone about his/her troubles and worries so that others may provide help and support for that the depressed person. I think no one really really wants to die. People choose to end their lives because they feel there is no other way to ease their pain, emotional or physical. But if others tell them that there is a way to get better, they will choose to live.
- JabavuAdams 14y ago
  The problem is that if you don't tell someone else you're actually suicidal, you tend to get a lot of well meaning feel-good advice. We naturally give people the benefit of the doubt. Bystander effect, etc.
andyjohnson0 14y ago
"Telling someone makes it likely that they will try to stop you." I think this is a likely reason, along with feeling of low self worth (feeling irredeemably "unfixable" as lusr described it [1]), or not having any fiends or family that they can tell. The best thing is to talk to someone. Ideally a mental health professional, or failing that a friend or relation. But if a suicidal person feels that this would diminish their control over their life then I would urge them to phone a crisis line (list here: [2]). They keep their anonymity and control while giving themselves the chance of a way out of the immediate crisis, hopefully enabling them to get to the point where they can confide in someone and get help. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5138789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5138789 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines
- philwelch 14y ago
  This is unlikely to be a convincing argument to a genuinely suicidal person. A crisis line's purpose is to prevent suicide. If you're suicidal, talking to those people sounds suspiciously like those all-expense-paid free vacations where they try to sell you timeshares. Actually, that's the fundamental problem with this whole discussion. Stopping suicide means stopping people from doing what they want to do, literally with their own life, just because you don't want them to do it. With loved ones perhaps it's understandable, but what standing does some stranger on a crisis line have to try and do that?
  - thatperson 14y ago
    You're a fucking idiot. Those hotlines are the only people who understand and the anonymity is the only way depressed people will probably talk about it Particularly entrepreneurs.
    - philwelch 14y ago
      Don't be a dick.
    - andyjohnson0 14y ago
JabavuAdams 14y ago
> Also, depression never leaves you alone, so there will be multiple points in your life where you will think about taking your own life, and you will yourself doubt whether you will go through with it up to the point of pulling the trigger, so you don't want to tell someone and "waste their time" if you are not sure you are going to do it. This is not true, though I agree that this is how the afflicted might see it. I've had depression and suicidal thoughts. Now I don't. A combination of ambition, temporary setbacks, and treatable medical problems / drug interactions were at fault. Now I don't feel suicidal. I sometimes feel sad, but never depressed. If anything -- the few bouts of depression I had were something like a crucible. I've looked into the abyss, broken down, and now I know that I can put myself back together again. It's actually kind of liberating and focusing. There is hope!

by param 14y ago

lusr 14y ago

There are other reasons too. Having been there myself, the big one I've seen in myself and with friends in similar situations is that the depressed individual feels worthless and "unfixable" at their core because of their: - past behaviour (e.g. they did something considered seriously socially unacceptable and feel they can't tell anybody lest they be ostracised forever, or people already know about it and they are ostracised leading to feelings of no hope of escape); or - past experiences (e.g. they have a string of failed relationships they feel responsible for and believe they'll never be happy and every day seeing happy couples on Facebook or in the shopping mall is like a stab in the heart). At the root of it is hopelessness, which also covers: - future expectations (e.g. they're trapped in a very bad situation, e.g. money, relationship, crime, etc., and can see no way of escape) In these desperate situations, they feel too guilty, hopeless, ashamed and/or disgusted to discuss their circumstances with anybody, and besides, in their minds, it wouldn't accomplish anything because they "know" they're broken ("I can't live with myself after what I did", "Alice was the only person who could love somebody like me", etc.) or screwed ("I can't go to prison", "If anybody ever finds out I'll never get a decent job/lover ever again", "Nobody can replace Alice, I screwed up forever", etc.) and there's no way out. Perhaps the saddest thing about suicidal depression is that many (note: I'm not claiming all, or even a majority, OR in the case of Aaron OR Jody, simply 'many'!) of these scenarios seem to stem from a dysfunctional belief system and a lack of introspective coping skills that I imagine could easily be taught, in the form of life skills based on cognitive behavioural therapy, to school teenage children. Many parents lack these skills (through no fault of their own), and pass dysfunctional beliefs and thought processes onto their children (entirely unconsciously). It's fascinating to me that such a serious problem - the #2 non-biological cause of death, behind road traffic accidents - receives so little real attention [1]. People get upset about wars, murders, have extensive fire safety requirements, covers for their pools, hide their poison and medicines from children, panic over their children being abducted or falling pregnant etc., yet suicidal depression? I don't believe I knew a thing about it until I had to learn quickly - to help myself. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate

robg 14y ago
And the most recent study suggest suicide has now passed car accidents. http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/09/20/suicide-now-kills-more-americans-than-car-crashes-study http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/09/2...
- mikecane 14y ago
  On Twitter, I would follow a 911 tweeter. I could not believe how many people were killing themselves by jumping from heights in NYC. And they never made the MSM news at all.

xijuan 14y ago

I don't think he necessarily means that the person should tell someone his/her suicidal thoughts. I think he means that the person should tell someone about his/her troubles and worries so that others may provide help and support for that the depressed person. I think no one really really wants to die. People choose to end their lives because they feel there is no other way to ease their pain, emotional or physical. But if others tell them that there is a way to get better, they will choose to live.

JabavuAdams 14y ago
The problem is that if you don't tell someone else you're actually suicidal, you tend to get a lot of well meaning feel-good advice. We naturally give people the benefit of the doubt. Bystander effect, etc.

andyjohnson0 14y ago

"Telling someone makes it likely that they will try to stop you." I think this is a likely reason, along with feeling of low self worth (feeling irredeemably "unfixable" as lusr described it [1]), or not having any fiends or family that they can tell. The best thing is to talk to someone. Ideally a mental health professional, or failing that a friend or relation. But if a suicidal person feels that this would diminish their control over their life then I would urge them to phone a crisis line (list here: [2]). They keep their anonymity and control while giving themselves the chance of a way out of the immediate crisis, hopefully enabling them to get to the point where they can confide in someone and get help. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5138789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5138789 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines

philwelch 14y ago
This is unlikely to be a convincing argument to a genuinely suicidal person. A crisis line's purpose is to prevent suicide. If you're suicidal, talking to those people sounds suspiciously like those all-expense-paid free vacations where they try to sell you timeshares. Actually, that's the fundamental problem with this whole discussion. Stopping suicide means stopping people from doing what they want to do, literally with their own life, just because you don't want them to do it. With loved ones perhaps it's understandable, but what standing does some stranger on a crisis line have to try and do that?
- thatperson 14y ago
  You're a fucking idiot. Those hotlines are the only people who understand and the anonymity is the only way depressed people will probably talk about it Particularly entrepreneurs.
  - philwelch 14y ago
    Don't be a dick.
  - andyjohnson0 14y ago

JabavuAdams 14y ago

> Also, depression never leaves you alone, so there will be multiple points in your life where you will think about taking your own life, and you will yourself doubt whether you will go through with it up to the point of pulling the trigger, so you don't want to tell someone and "waste their time" if you are not sure you are going to do it. This is not true, though I agree that this is how the afflicted might see it. I've had depression and suicidal thoughts. Now I don't. A combination of ambition, temporary setbacks, and treatable medical problems / drug interactions were at fault. Now I don't feel suicidal. I sometimes feel sad, but never depressed. If anything -- the few bouts of depression I had were something like a crucible. I've looked into the abyss, broken down, and now I know that I can put myself back together again. It's actually kind of liberating and focusing. There is hope!