4 ms·

It is a computer. It's sold as a computer. It runs REAL. WINDOWS. It is not an iPad. When I buy a computer, the OS takes up some of the space, despite what siz

It is a computer. It's sold as a computer. It runs REAL. WINDOWS. It is not an iPad. When I buy a computer, the OS takes up some of the space, despite what size the storage lists. MS disclosed this BEFORE anyone purchased the system. Where's the complaint?

skriticos2 14y ago
Maybe I'd buy it if Windows would be the only thing around.. But I'm comparing it to my system (Ubuntu). The kernel takes about 70 MB and the entire system (including LibreOffice, Firefox and a basic apps) fits on a CD (including live environment). That's about 700 MB. With a full set of development tools and a good selection of applications I come to around 4 GB. That's a number I can comprehend. Now Windows 7/8 comes into arena somewhere around 16-17 GB on a clean install. This includes the base system, a shell, some tiny utility apps and a Browser. End of list. WTF?
- daeken 14y ago
  > The kernel takes about 70 MB and the entire system (including LibreOffice, Firefox and a basic apps) fits on a CD (including live environment). That's about 700 MB. Heavily compressed, yes. In actuality, it's more like 5GB, considering all the redundancy inherent in these sorts of binaries. Regardless, Windows libraries alone come to 10GB (between system32, syswow64, and winsxs), because unlike an Ubuntu LiveCD, they aren't shipping just the libraries for the applications on the disc, but a massive, massive set of base APIs, various different versions, etc. This is the cost of legacy compatibility.
veemjeem 14y ago
The complaint is that average users are not going to know or understand the difference between "real windows" and "ipad windows". It's also kind of pointless for a salesperson to attempt explaining this to the average user. The surface competes directly with the ipad. It contains an arm chip and probably can't run your old existing windows software.
- rgsteele 14y ago
  To be clear, we're talking about the Surface Pro here -- the one that has an x86 chip and can run your old existing Windows software.
rescripting 14y ago
My complaint isn't aimed only at Microsoft for doing this, although this is the worst example I've seen. My complaint is that products are being marketed and sold using a false metric: hard drive space. iPads are sold this way, Android phones are sold this way, and yes, "real windows computers" are sold this way. The fact that you think it's important we're talking about a "real windows computer" in this case only reinforces my point that you're suffering the bias of someone who is well versed in technology. Trying to persuade consumers with the capacity of the disk drive is meaningless, but to consumers it doesn't seem meaningless. Otherwise, why would they put it in such big print on the box? Ultimately this only hurts Microsoft (and anyone else who does this) since it worsens some customer's experiences by giving them false expectations. It won't affect all customers and especially not the tech savvy here who are calling the layman stupid for not knowing the difference between "actual formatted capacity" and the number on the package, but real people none the less.
darkarmani 14y ago
> It runs REAL. WINDOWS Actually it doesn't. It runs some weird OS with a scrabble board of apps.

skriticos2 14y ago

Maybe I'd buy it if Windows would be the only thing around.. But I'm comparing it to my system (Ubuntu). The kernel takes about 70 MB and the entire system (including LibreOffice, Firefox and a basic apps) fits on a CD (including live environment). That's about 700 MB. With a full set of development tools and a good selection of applications I come to around 4 GB. That's a number I can comprehend. Now Windows 7/8 comes into arena somewhere around 16-17 GB on a clean install. This includes the base system, a shell, some tiny utility apps and a Browser. End of list. WTF?

daeken 14y ago
> The kernel takes about 70 MB and the entire system (including LibreOffice, Firefox and a basic apps) fits on a CD (including live environment). That's about 700 MB. Heavily compressed, yes. In actuality, it's more like 5GB, considering all the redundancy inherent in these sorts of binaries. Regardless, Windows libraries alone come to 10GB (between system32, syswow64, and winsxs), because unlike an Ubuntu LiveCD, they aren't shipping just the libraries for the applications on the disc, but a massive, massive set of base APIs, various different versions, etc. This is the cost of legacy compatibility.

veemjeem 14y ago

The complaint is that average users are not going to know or understand the difference between "real windows" and "ipad windows". It's also kind of pointless for a salesperson to attempt explaining this to the average user. The surface competes directly with the ipad. It contains an arm chip and probably can't run your old existing windows software.

rgsteele 14y ago
To be clear, we're talking about the Surface Pro here -- the one that has an x86 chip and can run your old existing Windows software.

rescripting 14y ago

My complaint isn't aimed only at Microsoft for doing this, although this is the worst example I've seen. My complaint is that products are being marketed and sold using a false metric: hard drive space. iPads are sold this way, Android phones are sold this way, and yes, "real windows computers" are sold this way. The fact that you think it's important we're talking about a "real windows computer" in this case only reinforces my point that you're suffering the bias of someone who is well versed in technology. Trying to persuade consumers with the capacity of the disk drive is meaningless, but to consumers it doesn't seem meaningless. Otherwise, why would they put it in such big print on the box? Ultimately this only hurts Microsoft (and anyone else who does this) since it worsens some customer's experiences by giving them false expectations. It won't affect all customers and especially not the tech savvy here who are calling the layman stupid for not knowing the difference between "actual formatted capacity" and the number on the package, but real people none the less.

darkarmani 14y ago

> It runs REAL. WINDOWS Actually it doesn't. It runs some weird OS with a scrabble board of apps.