3 ms·

Not sure I understand this. At 100k/year eating out at restaurants, buying latest iphone, plane tickets, clothes shopping, etc are all relatively cheap most an

by dpeck 14y ago

Not sure I understand this. At 100k/year eating out at restaurants, buying latest iphone, plane tickets, clothes shopping, etc are all relatively cheap most anywhere, aren't they? There are plenty of Atlanta people who fall into the real estate trap, and it is a trap, but there are also plenty who live in slummy east atlanta, or get a reasonable condo/apt in midtown. Leaving them with relatively huge amounts of disposable income for experiences and shiny things.

wmeredith 14y ago
Yeah, this doesn't compute for me either. The price of iPhones and plane tickets have little to do with geography until you start crossing national borders.
- emmett 14y ago
  Exactly! The price of iPhones is constant, but income is variable. So as a percentage of income, the price of iPhones varies hugely from location to location.
emmett 14y ago
Incomes are not the same in Atlanta and SF! The same person at an equivalent job will earn MUCH more money in SF. Let me break down the math (all approximate): SF: $100k/year income, $24k/year rent, $45k/year taxes, $31k/year disposable Atlanta: $50k/year income, $8k/year rent, $20k/year taxes, $22k/year disposable So if you live in SF, an iPhone is 1.6% of your disposable income. In Atlanta, it's 2.3%. That makes it "cheaper". However, $24k/year in SF probably buys you a lot less house than $8k/year does in Atlanta. The SF real estate market is stupid.
- dpeck 14y ago
  Interesting I could see that as a possibility, but I think we're comparing two different fictional people. Of course if you could double your salary moving to SF it usually makes sense, but I think its often more of a 25-50% difference. And also, I don't believe it scales 1:1. The developers I know well here, 5 to 7 years out of school, nearly everyone in Atlanta is making close to 100k (almost all +/- 10k). Developers with similar positions and experience aren't making 180-220 are they? Perhaps I'm wrong, maybe SF really is the promised land, but the numbers have never worked out on any positions I've looked at. YMMV of course.
  - rdl 14y ago
    I think you're more likely to get meaningfully-valued equity in Silicon Valley $140k/yr jobs than in Atlanta $80k/yr jobs, and then there's the tax differential there (lower rate as well as the income vs. LTCG differential). The absolute win seems to be to work in Silicon Valley for 3-5 years, accepting a low "house" standard of living while enjoying consumer goods and travel, and then take your $100-150k/yr salary (and history of working at top companies) to do one of two things: 1) work remotely for top companies from a place like Seattle for $100-120k/yr (or, if you want to optimize even more, move to Thailand or something and work remotely for $60k/yr) 2) Found a startup, deferring as much compensation as possible into LT capital gains. Being much easier to raise money in Silicon Valley makes up for all the other things. Potentially open an engineering office outside the Bay Area to hire people who chose path #1.
- randomdata 14y ago
  I think it is worth noting that in much of the technology sector you can work in SF, and make a SF salary, while existing in Atlanta. This also serves to drive up salaries in the sector across the nation, and even the world. $100k/year income, $8k/year rent, $20k/year taxes, $72k/year disposable Outside of tech, where presence matters more, your scenario probably is fairly realistic though.

by dpeck 14y ago

wmeredith 14y ago

Yeah, this doesn't compute for me either. The price of iPhones and plane tickets have little to do with geography until you start crossing national borders.

emmett 14y ago
Exactly! The price of iPhones is constant, but income is variable. So as a percentage of income, the price of iPhones varies hugely from location to location.

emmett 14y ago

Incomes are not the same in Atlanta and SF! The same person at an equivalent job will earn MUCH more money in SF. Let me break down the math (all approximate): SF: $100k/year income, $24k/year rent, $45k/year taxes, $31k/year disposable Atlanta: $50k/year income, $8k/year rent, $20k/year taxes, $22k/year disposable So if you live in SF, an iPhone is 1.6% of your disposable income. In Atlanta, it's 2.3%. That makes it "cheaper". However, $24k/year in SF probably buys you a lot less house than $8k/year does in Atlanta. The SF real estate market is stupid.

dpeck 14y ago
Interesting I could see that as a possibility, but I think we're comparing two different fictional people. Of course if you could double your salary moving to SF it usually makes sense, but I think its often more of a 25-50% difference. And also, I don't believe it scales 1:1. The developers I know well here, 5 to 7 years out of school, nearly everyone in Atlanta is making close to 100k (almost all +/- 10k). Developers with similar positions and experience aren't making 180-220 are they? Perhaps I'm wrong, maybe SF really is the promised land, but the numbers have never worked out on any positions I've looked at. YMMV of course.
- rdl 14y ago
  I think you're more likely to get meaningfully-valued equity in Silicon Valley $140k/yr jobs than in Atlanta $80k/yr jobs, and then there's the tax differential there (lower rate as well as the income vs. LTCG differential). The absolute win seems to be to work in Silicon Valley for 3-5 years, accepting a low "house" standard of living while enjoying consumer goods and travel, and then take your $100-150k/yr salary (and history of working at top companies) to do one of two things: 1) work remotely for top companies from a place like Seattle for $100-120k/yr (or, if you want to optimize even more, move to Thailand or something and work remotely for $60k/yr) 2) Found a startup, deferring as much compensation as possible into LT capital gains. Being much easier to raise money in Silicon Valley makes up for all the other things. Potentially open an engineering office outside the Bay Area to hire people who chose path #1.
randomdata 14y ago
I think it is worth noting that in much of the technology sector you can work in SF, and make a SF salary, while existing in Atlanta. This also serves to drive up salaries in the sector across the nation, and even the world. $100k/year income, $8k/year rent, $20k/year taxes, $72k/year disposable Outside of tech, where presence matters more, your scenario probably is fairly realistic though.