4 ms·

you are right that there are probably many people who see immigration reform as a way to drive down labor costs. you're also correct in asserting that it's wron

by panabee 14y ago

you are right that there are probably many people who see immigration reform as a way to drive down labor costs. you're also correct in asserting that it's wrong to equate immigration opposition to xenophobia. an elite investor like mike moritz, however, cares less about constraining costs and more about planting seeds, that is ensuring the brightest minds launch companies in silicon valley. he makes money when entrepreneurs dream of and execute against audacious ideas that change the world. people like sergey brin and andy grove. billion dollar ideas and teams, the ones he generally invests in, can attract financing and are not more likely to succeed if labor costs dip. in other words, most of his failed investments did not fail because labor costs were too high. while there may not be a shortage of engineers, there may be a shortage of quality engineers. degrees do not guarantee talent or quality. i graduated with dual degrees in computer science from stanford, yet if i had pursued a career in software development, i would have been at best a good engineer -- not an elite one. the stripes, facebooks, and googles of today are seeking world class engineers. not merely good ones. this is the crux of mortiz's argument.

rayiner 14y ago
I don't buy the argument that the Facebooks and Googles of today can't find the "elite" people they need. They just have not, until recently, been willing to pay what it takes to recruit those people. I went to one of the more well-known STEM magnet high schools in the U.S. Lots of very bright kids, total immersion in science and technology. Looking back on my class 10 years later, I see way more people in finance, consulting, law, and even accounting than in STEM. Until the recent Silicon Valley salary wars, the tech industry just didn't pay salaries sufficient to compete with those other industries for graduates. Contrast my brother, who graduated from the same school, and recently from one of HYP. Tech attracted a lot of people in his class. And it's obvious why. Salaries at the top software companies are now quite attractive relative to any other industry besides Wall Street (and a lot of people would take a 50% paycut to work for Google rather than Goldman).
- panabee 14y ago
  google can obviously afford to pay much more for talent. one reason they don't is to avoid attracting mercenaries. they seek engineers who love working at google and building great software and products -- not people motivated primarily by compensation. they are happy to let those people build careers on wall street if money matters more to them. as a clarification, many people have legitimate reasons for prizing money (e.g., paying off debts, supporting family) above else, but these are not the people google wants. the definition of elite here extends beyond intellect.
  - digitalzombie 14y ago
    Do you work for google or something? Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc.. have illegally agreed to not poach each other potential engineer therefore keeping their wage down. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57565425-38/apple-google-and-the-e-mail-trail-in-the-no-poaching-case/ http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57565425-38/apple-google-a... They can pay more, they just don't want to, because why pay more when you can pay less to get the same value?
  - eshvk 14y ago
    That is a rather silly argument: Are you saying that excellent engineer A who is being paid $100K won't be paid $300K because that will attract the "wrong kind of people". Why not just make sure you have interesting work and have a process that filters in the kind of people you want instead of artificially depressing the market...
    - panabee 14y ago
      because one way of filtering is by not offering $300K and giving only $100K instead. if the candidate wants more cash upfront, go to wall street. google is testing how much you want to work there. put another way, google attracts engineers who feel that working at google and working on world-changing products is part of the compensation. cash is another part. writing bank software and working in an org where engineers are second class citizens will appeal to fewer developers than writing world-changing software in an org where engineers are first class citizens. banks must pay more to attract engineers of comparable quality as a result.
- ozgune 14y ago
  Well, he seems to be arguing that without an immigration reform, you may not have Google in the first place (it's getting tougher for skilled immigrants to come in): "Everyone knows that the remarkable achievements of the foreign born have led to the formation of companies such as Google, Intel, Sun Microsystems, nVidia, Yahoo! PayPal and scores of others. Of the last eleven early stage companies that have allied themselves with Sequoia Capital, seven have had immigrants among their founding lineup." They also explicitly say on their website that they invest in Gen1 companies: http://www.sequoiacap.com/us/about/gen_1 http://www.sequoiacap.com/us/about/gen_1

by panabee 14y ago

rayiner 14y ago

I don't buy the argument that the Facebooks and Googles of today can't find the "elite" people they need. They just have not, until recently, been willing to pay what it takes to recruit those people. I went to one of the more well-known STEM magnet high schools in the U.S. Lots of very bright kids, total immersion in science and technology. Looking back on my class 10 years later, I see way more people in finance, consulting, law, and even accounting than in STEM. Until the recent Silicon Valley salary wars, the tech industry just didn't pay salaries sufficient to compete with those other industries for graduates. Contrast my brother, who graduated from the same school, and recently from one of HYP. Tech attracted a lot of people in his class. And it's obvious why. Salaries at the top software companies are now quite attractive relative to any other industry besides Wall Street (and a lot of people would take a 50% paycut to work for Google rather than Goldman).

panabee 14y ago
google can obviously afford to pay much more for talent. one reason they don't is to avoid attracting mercenaries. they seek engineers who love working at google and building great software and products -- not people motivated primarily by compensation. they are happy to let those people build careers on wall street if money matters more to them. as a clarification, many people have legitimate reasons for prizing money (e.g., paying off debts, supporting family) above else, but these are not the people google wants. the definition of elite here extends beyond intellect.
- digitalzombie 14y ago
  Do you work for google or something? Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc.. have illegally agreed to not poach each other potential engineer therefore keeping their wage down. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57565425-38/apple-google-and-the-e-mail-trail-in-the-no-poaching-case/ http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57565425-38/apple-google-a... They can pay more, they just don't want to, because why pay more when you can pay less to get the same value?
- eshvk 14y ago
  That is a rather silly argument: Are you saying that excellent engineer A who is being paid $100K won't be paid $300K because that will attract the "wrong kind of people". Why not just make sure you have interesting work and have a process that filters in the kind of people you want instead of artificially depressing the market...
  - panabee 14y ago
    because one way of filtering is by not offering $300K and giving only $100K instead. if the candidate wants more cash upfront, go to wall street. google is testing how much you want to work there. put another way, google attracts engineers who feel that working at google and working on world-changing products is part of the compensation. cash is another part. writing bank software and working in an org where engineers are second class citizens will appeal to fewer developers than writing world-changing software in an org where engineers are first class citizens. banks must pay more to attract engineers of comparable quality as a result.
ozgune 14y ago
Well, he seems to be arguing that without an immigration reform, you may not have Google in the first place (it's getting tougher for skilled immigrants to come in): "Everyone knows that the remarkable achievements of the foreign born have led to the formation of companies such as Google, Intel, Sun Microsystems, nVidia, Yahoo! PayPal and scores of others. Of the last eleven early stage companies that have allied themselves with Sequoia Capital, seven have had immigrants among their founding lineup." They also explicitly say on their website that they invest in Gen1 companies: http://www.sequoiacap.com/us/about/gen_1 http://www.sequoiacap.com/us/about/gen_1