4 ms·

I wonder what direction watch making will take in the future. As small scale manufacturing is being transformed by 3D printing in general, could there be analo

by aleyan 14y ago

I wonder what direction watch making will take in the future. As small scale manufacturing is being transformed by 3D printing in general, could there be analogous impact in watch making from cheaper automated precision milling machines? Imagine an amateur downloading some vanilla clock movement CAD designs; personalizing them to an extend he feels comfortable; and have the parts printed/milled/laser cut offsite for traditional assembly at home. Without being knowledgeable in watchmaking, this sounds like a fraction of the effort that is presently required to make a custom watch.

dfc 14y ago
I do not see why you think cheaper precision milling is going to create an environment where making a watch requires a fraction of the effort. In order for that to be the case the biggest impediment to making a watch would be the cost of production. Do you think its relatively effortless to understand and modify a basic watch design? Do you think "traditional assembly at home" is going to be easy? I think "being knowledgeable" in watchmaking is a prerequisite for an amateur to personalize the movements to any extent. I highly doubt that many people are going to download watch designs and go nuts and add 5 or 10 new complications that they have always wanted on a watch but could never afford.
- aleyan 14y ago
  I was thinking more along the lines of customizing the watch face for the amateurs. Downloading the movement probably isn't required as completed movements should be available for purchase. For experts, yes, they should be able to customize their movements and go nuts. My original post all comes down to lowering the barrier to entry, making existing things possible with less effort, and increasing the iteration speed for very hard and experimental things. PS. Of course you have to be "knowledgeable" in watch making to pull any of this off. The "without being knowledge" in the original post referred to me commenting on the topic without any specialized knowledge rather than the hypothetical amateur doing things willy-nilly.
  - dfc 14y ago
    I apologize if I am misreading your comment. Are you equating changing the size of the minute hand and/or other face customizations with watchmaking?
    - rscale 14y ago
      I feel like he's describing this: http://www.bamfordwatchdepartment.com/customiser.cfm http://www.bamfordwatchdepartment.com/customiser.cfm but I could also be misreading the comment.
      - dfc 14y ago
        That is what I was thinking (afraid of). That's like saying I am a kernel developer because I edited a kernel error message for grammar.
- bri3d 14y ago
  While I don't think cheaper precision milling will ever build an environment where making a watch is a whole lot easier, I do think it's already driving an environment where building a mid-volume independent mechanical watch company is much cheaper. I don't think we'll see individuals CNCing movements they download online anytime in the near future, especially due to the skill and practice required to simply assemble a movement even once it's designed and machined. However, the falling price of commercial-scale high-precision CNC is already causing changes in the industry. Comparatively small brands like NOMOS are able to bring manufacturing in-house without raising their cost to hand-machined levels - a move which can be attributed directly to cheaper precision milling. Swatch's ability to phase-out ETA ébauche sales and the growing popularity of Asian clone-movements as well as Sellita's production ramp-up can be attributed directly to cheaper precision milling as well. I suspect that horological innovation will increase in the next few years as smaller companies are able to manufacture interesting movements at scale without charging the hand-made costs that independent watchmakers and haute horology brands have demanded in the past, and the ETA phase-out leads manufacturers to consider in-house production over ébauche purchase.
  - dfc 14y ago
    "I don't think we'll see individuals CNCing movements they download online anytime in the near future, especially due to the skill and practice required to simply assemble a movement even once it's designed and machined." This was precisely my point, i thought the OP drastically underestimated the skill and knowledge required to understand how a watch works, modify it and put together the new improved DIY version. However it seems that the OP thinks personalizing a watchface makes you a watchmaker.
flogic 14y ago
I'm highly skeptical in terms of 3d printing and laser cutting. Laser cutting has issues with tiny pieces heating up and warping. It's something they warn you about when designing parts. Most of the 3d printed parts I've seen pictures of have visible ridges due to print resolution. Also, I question material strength in 3d printing. While the goo coming out of the print head will be hot the deposited material is likely to have cooled. Source: I'm slowly designing and hopefully making my own clock. I'm targeting more mantle piece size so I can hopefully get away with laser cutting.
- Jtsummers 14y ago
  What resources have you used to learn clock design?
  - flogic 14y ago
    To be completely honest, I'm cheating. I considered doing a full mechanical clock but I'm going the micro controller and stepper motor route. There are a couple of reasons for this. First and foremost, I don't really have the space for a workshop. Nor, do I have any machinist training. However considering, you can order wooden clock kits on the internet that's probably not the big deal it seems. Given that I'm cheating, I've vastly reduced the knowledge I need. My mechanical bits should be understandable to any reasonably bright person. The electronics can be gleaned through the howtos on Sparkfun and Ada Fruit. All that said, basic clock operation doesn't seem to be anything that complicated. The hard parts come in when you want accuracy and run time. There are a couple of clock repair sites around the internet. A common theme seems to be managing wear and lubrication over there years so the tiny amount of power provided is enough.
    - Jtsummers 14y ago
      Thanks. I also lack a workshop and machinist training, and these days the time. I've got an extra room and no longer have a roommate so I could make use of it as a workshop now. Just need tools and a project, old desk will be my workbench.
sliverstorm 14y ago
I'm still waiting for 3D printing to achieve the quality necessary to print high-quality parts for something like a watch. I don't believe such quality is impossible, but I will be restraining my "the world will never be the same!!!" until we at least get close.
cschmidt 14y ago
You should check out UTS watches. The German guy who started it had a business selling high end CNC machines. I guess he wanted to make something with them. So he cuts the cases for these watches on his machines. He puts a nice mechanical ETA movement in them. I have one of the 1000M watches, and it is a thing of beauty. There is a guy in America who takes care of sales, and the guy who makes them in Munich. Kind of a watch geek thing, but they make a nice business out of it. http://www.utswatches.com/ http://www.utswatches.com/
- rorrr 14y ago
  They look so generic, like thousands of other watches.
  - whatshisface 14y ago
    Isn't all wine made from grapes?
  - cschmidt 14y ago
    I guess your generic is my minimalist elegance ;-).
- sk5t 14y ago
  Nice-looking watches, but I was very surprised to see prices over US$5,000 from a maker with no cachet and fairly standard design / no special complications.
  - cschmidt 14y ago
    It is all personal taste I guess. Mine was about half that price for the 1000M. Their value is in the beautiful cases and bracelets, all CNC cut from a hunk of stainless steel. They are among the most waterproof watches on the market. I'll never actually dive 1000 meters, so I realize that is like people who never drive their SUV on a dirt road. I prefer my watches to be kind of minimalist, so I like the design. It has no cachet in that no one has heard of UTS, and nobody comments on it. But it makes me happy to have a unique thing of beauty, so that works for me. I view it as much more special than a fairly common watch like the Omega Speedmaster, say.

by aleyan 14y ago

dfc 14y ago

I do not see why you think cheaper precision milling is going to create an environment where making a watch requires a fraction of the effort. In order for that to be the case the biggest impediment to making a watch would be the cost of production. Do you think its relatively effortless to understand and modify a basic watch design? Do you think "traditional assembly at home" is going to be easy? I think "being knowledgeable" in watchmaking is a prerequisite for an amateur to personalize the movements to any extent. I highly doubt that many people are going to download watch designs and go nuts and add 5 or 10 new complications that they have always wanted on a watch but could never afford.

aleyan 14y ago
I was thinking more along the lines of customizing the watch face for the amateurs. Downloading the movement probably isn't required as completed movements should be available for purchase. For experts, yes, they should be able to customize their movements and go nuts. My original post all comes down to lowering the barrier to entry, making existing things possible with less effort, and increasing the iteration speed for very hard and experimental things. PS. Of course you have to be "knowledgeable" in watch making to pull any of this off. The "without being knowledge" in the original post referred to me commenting on the topic without any specialized knowledge rather than the hypothetical amateur doing things willy-nilly.
- dfc 14y ago
  I apologize if I am misreading your comment. Are you equating changing the size of the minute hand and/or other face customizations with watchmaking?
  - rscale 14y ago
    I feel like he's describing this: http://www.bamfordwatchdepartment.com/customiser.cfm http://www.bamfordwatchdepartment.com/customiser.cfm but I could also be misreading the comment.
    - dfc 14y ago
      That is what I was thinking (afraid of). That's like saying I am a kernel developer because I edited a kernel error message for grammar.
bri3d 14y ago
While I don't think cheaper precision milling will ever build an environment where making a watch is a whole lot easier, I do think it's already driving an environment where building a mid-volume independent mechanical watch company is much cheaper. I don't think we'll see individuals CNCing movements they download online anytime in the near future, especially due to the skill and practice required to simply assemble a movement even once it's designed and machined. However, the falling price of commercial-scale high-precision CNC is already causing changes in the industry. Comparatively small brands like NOMOS are able to bring manufacturing in-house without raising their cost to hand-machined levels - a move which can be attributed directly to cheaper precision milling. Swatch's ability to phase-out ETA ébauche sales and the growing popularity of Asian clone-movements as well as Sellita's production ramp-up can be attributed directly to cheaper precision milling as well. I suspect that horological innovation will increase in the next few years as smaller companies are able to manufacture interesting movements at scale without charging the hand-made costs that independent watchmakers and haute horology brands have demanded in the past, and the ETA phase-out leads manufacturers to consider in-house production over ébauche purchase.
- dfc 14y ago
  "I don't think we'll see individuals CNCing movements they download online anytime in the near future, especially due to the skill and practice required to simply assemble a movement even once it's designed and machined." This was precisely my point, i thought the OP drastically underestimated the skill and knowledge required to understand how a watch works, modify it and put together the new improved DIY version. However it seems that the OP thinks personalizing a watchface makes you a watchmaker.

flogic 14y ago

I'm highly skeptical in terms of 3d printing and laser cutting. Laser cutting has issues with tiny pieces heating up and warping. It's something they warn you about when designing parts. Most of the 3d printed parts I've seen pictures of have visible ridges due to print resolution. Also, I question material strength in 3d printing. While the goo coming out of the print head will be hot the deposited material is likely to have cooled. Source: I'm slowly designing and hopefully making my own clock. I'm targeting more mantle piece size so I can hopefully get away with laser cutting.

Jtsummers 14y ago
What resources have you used to learn clock design?
- flogic 14y ago
  To be completely honest, I'm cheating. I considered doing a full mechanical clock but I'm going the micro controller and stepper motor route. There are a couple of reasons for this. First and foremost, I don't really have the space for a workshop. Nor, do I have any machinist training. However considering, you can order wooden clock kits on the internet that's probably not the big deal it seems. Given that I'm cheating, I've vastly reduced the knowledge I need. My mechanical bits should be understandable to any reasonably bright person. The electronics can be gleaned through the howtos on Sparkfun and Ada Fruit. All that said, basic clock operation doesn't seem to be anything that complicated. The hard parts come in when you want accuracy and run time. There are a couple of clock repair sites around the internet. A common theme seems to be managing wear and lubrication over there years so the tiny amount of power provided is enough.
  - Jtsummers 14y ago
    Thanks. I also lack a workshop and machinist training, and these days the time. I've got an extra room and no longer have a roommate so I could make use of it as a workshop now. Just need tools and a project, old desk will be my workbench.

sliverstorm 14y ago

I'm still waiting for 3D printing to achieve the quality necessary to print high-quality parts for something like a watch. I don't believe such quality is impossible, but I will be restraining my "the world will never be the same!!!" until we at least get close.

cschmidt 14y ago

You should check out UTS watches. The German guy who started it had a business selling high end CNC machines. I guess he wanted to make something with them. So he cuts the cases for these watches on his machines. He puts a nice mechanical ETA movement in them. I have one of the 1000M watches, and it is a thing of beauty. There is a guy in America who takes care of sales, and the guy who makes them in Munich. Kind of a watch geek thing, but they make a nice business out of it. http://www.utswatches.com/ http://www.utswatches.com/

rorrr 14y ago
They look so generic, like thousands of other watches.
- whatshisface 14y ago
  Isn't all wine made from grapes?
- cschmidt 14y ago
  I guess your generic is my minimalist elegance ;-).
sk5t 14y ago
Nice-looking watches, but I was very surprised to see prices over US$5,000 from a maker with no cachet and fairly standard design / no special complications.
- cschmidt 14y ago
  It is all personal taste I guess. Mine was about half that price for the 1000M. Their value is in the beautiful cases and bracelets, all CNC cut from a hunk of stainless steel. They are among the most waterproof watches on the market. I'll never actually dive 1000 meters, so I realize that is like people who never drive their SUV on a dirt road. I prefer my watches to be kind of minimalist, so I like the design. It has no cachet in that no one has heard of UTS, and nobody comments on it. But it makes me happy to have a unique thing of beauty, so that works for me. I view it as much more special than a fairly common watch like the Omega Speedmaster, say.