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WordPress itself is GPL licensed, and its creator, Automattic, contends that all themes and plugins for the CMS are derivative works, and must therefore be GPL

WordPress itself is GPL licensed, and its creator, Automattic, contends that all themes and plugins for the CMS are derivative works, and must therefore be GPL licensed as well. Which is probably true, since in addition to being nonfunctional without WordPress to provide the functions themes and plugins hook into, they commonly copy large bits of code from the main codebase and make minor changes to them. Envato allows you to list WordPress themes and plugins for sale in their marketplace, ThemeForest. They make these products available under a split license: the PHP code that interfaces with WordPress is made available under the GPL. CSS, JavaScript and binary assets are made available under a commercial license. WordPress does not argue that the above scenario is illegal, only that if you split-license works like that, you're not welcome to present at conferences that use their name.

lftl 14y ago
If you do "copy large bits of code from the main codebase" this is moot, but I've wondered about the other point. If I don't copy any bits, I'm not really sure why my PHP code would necessarily fall under the GPL. What if I made NotGPLPress that had API compatibility with WP's theme API, but was otherwise my implementation and released under a BSD license. That seems to be the exact same battle Google and Oracle just fought over Java, with Google essentially winning the APIs are not copyrightable battle. At that point couldn't every theme author just say that their theme is built for NotGPLPress and license it however they want? It seems odd that the existence or non-existence of another implementation should affect an author's licensing obligations.
- bigiain 14y ago
  Heh - I wonder of NotGPLPress would even have to work? ThemeForest could start selling NotGPLPress themes, with a note that NotGPLPress happens to be 100% API compatible with Wordpress. You'd need to ensure your themes weren't cut-n-pastes from code that is copyright Wordpress, but apart from that… Of course, the bigger problem seems to be that (some) theme authors want to be "part of the Wordpress community", presumably largely for professional and monetary reasons, while ignoring that "the Wordpress community" is strongly reliant on (and fundamentally beholden too) Automatic, and they can (and do) place expectations on the behaviours of participants in "the community", and they can (and now are) requiring that participants at events they run comply with those expectations. If you want to be "part of a community" which is reliant on one company, you probably need to play by their rules, even if you can whip out your rules-lawyer hat and claim "but those rules aren't strict interpretations of 'the law'".
- darkarmani 14y ago
  > What if I made NotGPLPress That might make them really mad. If they are going to blacklist on not licensing images as GPL, what do you think they are going to do to you? ;)
DannyBee 14y ago
Actually, it's only true to the degree they copy bits of code. The question whether conforming to a given API (which is what wordpress themes really do) constitutes a derivative work has so far only been answered "no" (and honestly, you better hope it stays that way). GPL explicitly states that non-derivative works are not covered. That said, basically, wordpress takes a legal position that is pretty bad, IMHO. People copying the GPL code into their own code? Great, i'm with you, it's GPL'd, assuming 1. it's copyrightable code. 2. it's not the only way to make it compatible, since if it's the only way to make it compatible, that's so far been considered fair use. As the ninth circuit said, anything else would grant a de-facto monopoly on functional uses. IMHO, you really don't want the legal reality to become what wordpress is trying to enforce.
- bigiain 14y ago
  "IMHO, you really don't want the legal reality to become what wordpress is trying to enforce." While your explanation makes that clear (and thanks for that), there's a big difference between "our preferences should become law", and "our preferences are not supported by law, but people who don't agree with them don't get invited to speak at conferences we run". Democrats are free to run conferences without being required to allow republicans to present there and vice versa, why is that different for Wordpress's conferences? I think your choice of the word "enforce" is probably a bit of an overreach for what Wordpress are trying to do. (for what it's worth, I don't agree with what Wordpress are doing, it seems petty and small minded to me, but I do think they have every right to be petty and small minded about conferences they organize if they choose to be…)
  - dangrossman 14y ago
    They don't actually organize the conferences, and probably have no involvement in most of them aside from vetting those who volunteer as organizers. WordCamps are small, locally run, kind of like a big meetup (and are often first organized through meetup.com). Tickets are usually around $20, with volunteer speakers and a few sponsors to cover the meeting space. That's been my experience in this region at least.
  - 14y ago
darkarmani 14y ago
> WordPress does not argue that the above scenario is illegal, only that if you split-license works like that, you're not welcome to present at conferences that use their name. Except that is ridiculous. What if you start a LLC and license your code through the LLC? How is WP going to know the developer of that split-licensed code? Does this mean everyone selling themes needs to start hiding behind legal entities?
- bigiain 14y ago
  Not so ridiculous, I think. What WordPress are doing is ensuring that if you want to build a reputation at a Wordpress conference, then you need to abide by what they think are important principles. If you want to be "Joe Smith, WordPress theme superstar" at their conference, you need to GPL your themes non-php assets. If you want to sell themes at ThemeForest as "Anonymous Foo Corp LLC" with commercially licensed non-php assets, that's fine too, but Anonymous Foo Corp doesn't get invited to speak at WordPress conferences, and if Joe Smith springs "Hey, I'm Anonymous Foo Corp on ThemeForest, go buy my shit" on the audience during a presentation at a WordPress conference, it'd be spectacularly poor form, and he should expect to be called out on it and never invited back. (and the fact that the blog post got written shows that at least one theme author does want to build his reputation by speaking at their conference, but isn't prepared to meet their "rules". wordPress, rightly or wrongly, have decided you can't do that any more.)

lftl 14y ago

If you do "copy large bits of code from the main codebase" this is moot, but I've wondered about the other point. If I don't copy any bits, I'm not really sure why my PHP code would necessarily fall under the GPL. What if I made NotGPLPress that had API compatibility with WP's theme API, but was otherwise my implementation and released under a BSD license. That seems to be the exact same battle Google and Oracle just fought over Java, with Google essentially winning the APIs are not copyrightable battle. At that point couldn't every theme author just say that their theme is built for NotGPLPress and license it however they want? It seems odd that the existence or non-existence of another implementation should affect an author's licensing obligations.

bigiain 14y ago
Heh - I wonder of NotGPLPress would even have to work? ThemeForest could start selling NotGPLPress themes, with a note that NotGPLPress happens to be 100% API compatible with Wordpress. You'd need to ensure your themes weren't cut-n-pastes from code that is copyright Wordpress, but apart from that… Of course, the bigger problem seems to be that (some) theme authors want to be "part of the Wordpress community", presumably largely for professional and monetary reasons, while ignoring that "the Wordpress community" is strongly reliant on (and fundamentally beholden too) Automatic, and they can (and do) place expectations on the behaviours of participants in "the community", and they can (and now are) requiring that participants at events they run comply with those expectations. If you want to be "part of a community" which is reliant on one company, you probably need to play by their rules, even if you can whip out your rules-lawyer hat and claim "but those rules aren't strict interpretations of 'the law'".
darkarmani 14y ago
> What if I made NotGPLPress That might make them really mad. If they are going to blacklist on not licensing images as GPL, what do you think they are going to do to you? ;)

DannyBee 14y ago

Actually, it's only true to the degree they copy bits of code. The question whether conforming to a given API (which is what wordpress themes really do) constitutes a derivative work has so far only been answered "no" (and honestly, you better hope it stays that way). GPL explicitly states that non-derivative works are not covered. That said, basically, wordpress takes a legal position that is pretty bad, IMHO. People copying the GPL code into their own code? Great, i'm with you, it's GPL'd, assuming 1. it's copyrightable code. 2. it's not the only way to make it compatible, since if it's the only way to make it compatible, that's so far been considered fair use. As the ninth circuit said, anything else would grant a de-facto monopoly on functional uses. IMHO, you really don't want the legal reality to become what wordpress is trying to enforce.

bigiain 14y ago
"IMHO, you really don't want the legal reality to become what wordpress is trying to enforce." While your explanation makes that clear (and thanks for that), there's a big difference between "our preferences should become law", and "our preferences are not supported by law, but people who don't agree with them don't get invited to speak at conferences we run". Democrats are free to run conferences without being required to allow republicans to present there and vice versa, why is that different for Wordpress's conferences? I think your choice of the word "enforce" is probably a bit of an overreach for what Wordpress are trying to do. (for what it's worth, I don't agree with what Wordpress are doing, it seems petty and small minded to me, but I do think they have every right to be petty and small minded about conferences they organize if they choose to be…)
- dangrossman 14y ago
  They don't actually organize the conferences, and probably have no involvement in most of them aside from vetting those who volunteer as organizers. WordCamps are small, locally run, kind of like a big meetup (and are often first organized through meetup.com). Tickets are usually around $20, with volunteer speakers and a few sponsors to cover the meeting space. That's been my experience in this region at least.
- 14y ago

darkarmani 14y ago

> WordPress does not argue that the above scenario is illegal, only that if you split-license works like that, you're not welcome to present at conferences that use their name. Except that is ridiculous. What if you start a LLC and license your code through the LLC? How is WP going to know the developer of that split-licensed code? Does this mean everyone selling themes needs to start hiding behind legal entities?

bigiain 14y ago
Not so ridiculous, I think. What WordPress are doing is ensuring that if you want to build a reputation at a Wordpress conference, then you need to abide by what they think are important principles. If you want to be "Joe Smith, WordPress theme superstar" at their conference, you need to GPL your themes non-php assets. If you want to sell themes at ThemeForest as "Anonymous Foo Corp LLC" with commercially licensed non-php assets, that's fine too, but Anonymous Foo Corp doesn't get invited to speak at WordPress conferences, and if Joe Smith springs "Hey, I'm Anonymous Foo Corp on ThemeForest, go buy my shit" on the audience during a presentation at a WordPress conference, it'd be spectacularly poor form, and he should expect to be called out on it and never invited back. (and the fact that the blog post got written shows that at least one theme author does want to build his reputation by speaking at their conference, but isn't prepared to meet their "rules". wordPress, rightly or wrongly, have decided you can't do that any more.)