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I'm excited about Firefox OS, in concept. However, I'm waiting for something, anything, to show that this isn't going to suffer from large project scope + inade

I'm excited about Firefox OS, in concept. However, I'm waiting for something, anything, to show that this isn't going to suffer from large project scope + inadequate resources death. Web controls? Great, but the developers have admitted that they aren't spending that much time on Gonk, etc. because they are UI/Javascript guys and don't want to focus on the underpinnings. Think about all of the things that Android and iOS don't do that Linux is capable of doing. Firefox OS could be exposing all of that to Javascript, but instead they are focusing completely on the UI and it will always lose to Android and iOS. The power of FF OS/B2G should be the flexibility of allowing HTML5 apps/Javascript to have access to the hardware.

MatthewPhillips 14y ago
You are mistaken, they definitely are adding *nix capabilities to JavaScript. Go read the B2G or WebAPI mailing list and you'll see they are working on every part of the OS, not just the UI.
- hakaaaaak 14y ago
  The problem that I saw in the API was that it was not open to new types of devices and there was no apparent way to download and install new drivers. That is basic OS stuff if this is ever to be a desktop replacement, and that is why Chromebooks aren't selling like hotcakes.
  - fzzzy 14y ago
    The WebUSB api has always been on the roadmap, but it got deprioritized for 1.0. It takes a long time to finish all these pieces, so some patience will be needed. :-)
    - hakaaaaak 14y ago
      Thanks! Will try to be patient, but it's difficult. :) Would it allow me to connect a USB keyboard (for example) or a USB mouse to my phone? How about a USB webcam that requires an additional linux driver to be installed? How could that be installed easily by the user? How about connecting a printer via USB? Will I be able to print from my HTML5 app? If not, what will it support? I'd also like to be able to find devices and printers via wifi and print, scan, etc. Will I be able to do that?
      - fzzzy 14y ago
        I'm not sure of the exact details, but I will try to find out and get back to you. The ultimate goal is if somebody wants to do something, then it should be possible.
mburns 14y ago
>Think about all of the things that Android and iOS don't do that Linux is capable of doing. Like what, exactly?
- imissmyjuno 14y ago
  Especially considering that Android is a Linux…
- hakaaaaak 14y ago
  To not only stage FirefoxOS as a potential desktop OS replacement, but 1-up Android and iOS, how about: * Add support for various types of USB devices. Anything that is supported in Linux via a driver you could install via FF OS would be available to HTML5 apps. Printers, displays, thumbprint scanners, etc. * Similar support for bluetooth devices, etc. as long as the driver could be coded to work on the device hardware, obviously. * Gonk should be more dynamic, letting you declare drivers, etc. that you want to use via a path. It's primary purpose would become managing permissions between HTML5 apps and devices. As new devices come out, those could be added easily either by discovery or manual install. When the OS-level drivers are available, it would only be a matter of the HTML5 app declaring what it is able or needs to use and then it asks you (or you configure it) to allow access to the drivers/etc. and then your HTML5 app could use your new bluetooth retina scanner, for example, or control some new helicopter+videocam toy. The way Firefox OS is now is just a Javascript replacement of Android's interface and it provides a similar level of access to the hardware. That is not enough. I don't want or need a Javascript phone and Javascript gaming device. I want to be able to use the same OS on my desktop as my phone, and if my phone has a USB plug, I should be able to plug one side into my Firefox OS phone and the other side into a label printer and print a label from my HTML5 app if I want. Is that level of integration ever going to be possible?
  - fzzzy 14y ago
    Yep. The entire goal of this project has always been to fill in all the gaps in web apis like these you suggest.
padenot 14y ago
We have added a whole bunch of things in Gecko and Gonk to support Gaia, which is mainly the front-end. WebAPIs are one example, but we have done much more. Good thing is that this improved the rendering engine of Firefox (that uses the same code base) too.
- hakaaaaak 14y ago
  FF OS should have full access to the capabilities of the device's hardware and anything that it can discover via bluetooth, whatever it is attached to via USB, etc. as long as someone can take an existing Linux driver, recompile it as needed, and then put it in some FF OS repo (official or unofficial) so that it is easily installable from the device itself. Basically, I want mobile Linux as it exists now, but be able to write and run HTML5 apps to access all of the same functionality. I think if the goal were to make mobile devices as capable as we should all expect but have been conditioned NOT to expect, then that would be an OS that could compete. Otherwise, it is just a slower UI with fewer applications.
  - fzzzy 14y ago
    Bluetooth is in 1.0, but only headset support and file transfer support because of time constraints. Arbitrary serial connections coming soon.
soapdog 14y ago
I just went to a Firefox OS App Day yesterday here in Brazil. I was able to play with a test device and try out some of the WebAPI stuff and I must tell you it is very refreshing to see a system perform so well on such simple phones. You have access to the hardware but crucial low level stuff requires certified/signed app status. Check out: https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI For more information. The cool thing was that my little hosted toy app was installable on the test device, on android with aurora and on my desktop mac also with aurora.

MatthewPhillips 14y ago

You are mistaken, they definitely are adding *nix capabilities to JavaScript. Go read the B2G or WebAPI mailing list and you'll see they are working on every part of the OS, not just the UI.

hakaaaaak 14y ago
The problem that I saw in the API was that it was not open to new types of devices and there was no apparent way to download and install new drivers. That is basic OS stuff if this is ever to be a desktop replacement, and that is why Chromebooks aren't selling like hotcakes.
- fzzzy 14y ago
  The WebUSB api has always been on the roadmap, but it got deprioritized for 1.0. It takes a long time to finish all these pieces, so some patience will be needed. :-)
  - hakaaaaak 14y ago
    Thanks! Will try to be patient, but it's difficult. :) Would it allow me to connect a USB keyboard (for example) or a USB mouse to my phone? How about a USB webcam that requires an additional linux driver to be installed? How could that be installed easily by the user? How about connecting a printer via USB? Will I be able to print from my HTML5 app? If not, what will it support? I'd also like to be able to find devices and printers via wifi and print, scan, etc. Will I be able to do that?
    - fzzzy 14y ago
      I'm not sure of the exact details, but I will try to find out and get back to you. The ultimate goal is if somebody wants to do something, then it should be possible.

mburns 14y ago

>Think about all of the things that Android and iOS don't do that Linux is capable of doing. Like what, exactly?

imissmyjuno 14y ago
Especially considering that Android is a Linux…
hakaaaaak 14y ago
To not only stage FirefoxOS as a potential desktop OS replacement, but 1-up Android and iOS, how about: * Add support for various types of USB devices. Anything that is supported in Linux via a driver you could install via FF OS would be available to HTML5 apps. Printers, displays, thumbprint scanners, etc. * Similar support for bluetooth devices, etc. as long as the driver could be coded to work on the device hardware, obviously. * Gonk should be more dynamic, letting you declare drivers, etc. that you want to use via a path. It's primary purpose would become managing permissions between HTML5 apps and devices. As new devices come out, those could be added easily either by discovery or manual install. When the OS-level drivers are available, it would only be a matter of the HTML5 app declaring what it is able or needs to use and then it asks you (or you configure it) to allow access to the drivers/etc. and then your HTML5 app could use your new bluetooth retina scanner, for example, or control some new helicopter+videocam toy. The way Firefox OS is now is just a Javascript replacement of Android's interface and it provides a similar level of access to the hardware. That is not enough. I don't want or need a Javascript phone and Javascript gaming device. I want to be able to use the same OS on my desktop as my phone, and if my phone has a USB plug, I should be able to plug one side into my Firefox OS phone and the other side into a label printer and print a label from my HTML5 app if I want. Is that level of integration ever going to be possible?
- fzzzy 14y ago
  Yep. The entire goal of this project has always been to fill in all the gaps in web apis like these you suggest.

padenot 14y ago

We have added a whole bunch of things in Gecko and Gonk to support Gaia, which is mainly the front-end. WebAPIs are one example, but we have done much more. Good thing is that this improved the rendering engine of Firefox (that uses the same code base) too.

hakaaaaak 14y ago
FF OS should have full access to the capabilities of the device's hardware and anything that it can discover via bluetooth, whatever it is attached to via USB, etc. as long as someone can take an existing Linux driver, recompile it as needed, and then put it in some FF OS repo (official or unofficial) so that it is easily installable from the device itself. Basically, I want mobile Linux as it exists now, but be able to write and run HTML5 apps to access all of the same functionality. I think if the goal were to make mobile devices as capable as we should all expect but have been conditioned NOT to expect, then that would be an OS that could compete. Otherwise, it is just a slower UI with fewer applications.
- fzzzy 14y ago
  Bluetooth is in 1.0, but only headset support and file transfer support because of time constraints. Arbitrary serial connections coming soon.

soapdog 14y ago

I just went to a Firefox OS App Day yesterday here in Brazil. I was able to play with a test device and try out some of the WebAPI stuff and I must tell you it is very refreshing to see a system perform so well on such simple phones. You have access to the hardware but crucial low level stuff requires certified/signed app status. Check out: https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI For more information. The cool thing was that my little hosted toy app was installable on the test device, on android with aurora and on my desktop mac also with aurora.