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There was no mention in the article about Ebonics. The article states you "sound black." All that means is that your accent sounds black, or at least, not Midwe

There was no mention in the article about Ebonics. The article states you "sound black." All that means is that your accent sounds black, or at least, not Midwestern Suburban American. What you are describing is someone that does not represent a minimal standard of professionalism, which is a very different thing. My god, sometimes I wonder where people on Hacker News comes from. You mean to tell me you never heard Will Smith talk? He sounds totally black and totally educated. You never worked with a person that has a "black" accent? If there is any real fault to this article, it is that the study was presumably done in and around Chicago, where racism to a level that offensive to any taste, is rampant. This culture of racism is what the article is attempting to describe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo1LPf9mnyU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo1LPf9mnyU

mc32 14y ago
People from Cape cod switch to local Boston accent when in Boston. Lots of Britons switch to a London accent when necessary. There is the dominant language which tends to have prestige and speakers of the lesser dialects (not as widespread, accepted, dominant, etc) tend to code switch, as necessary (as they feel appropriate). Even when speaking a second language I did the same. There was what people spoke and what one was taught (in Chinese). Even today I do this. When talking to friends I speak one way, when talking in a professional setting I speak differently --tend to enunciate better and drop the slang, drop contractions and shorthand and the uhms and ahhs, etc. I've seen guys with 'blue collar' speech let go before guys with more educated speech --the blue collar-speech guy was probably better at what he did than the other, but the blue collar guy could be insensitive, as it were, less refined in dealing with others. With regard to names. When I was in the East, I adopted a local first and last name. It's what people kind of expected of me. Some people just Sinolized my North American name, on the other hand.
argv_empty 14y ago
My god, sometimes I wonder where people on Hacker News comes from. You mean to tell me you never heard Will Smith talk? He sounds totally black and totally educated. You never worked with a person that has a "black" accent? And given this distinction between "sounding black" and "sounding unprofessional," one might harbor some doubt as to whether the study in question controlled for perceived professionalism when estimating the effect of perceived blackness. One might even go so far as to post a comment suggesting that factor might have been overlooked or conflated with the phenomenon being estimated.
- mc32 14y ago
  It would be interesting if they included people who sound 'blue collar' and people who sound like they're from the sticks (hillbilly) in the mix. Not sure what the results wold have been, but it'd be interesting to know. As control, they could add English speaking African immigrants.
- dizzystar 14y ago
  You bring up a human-nature attitude and the proof is around us all the time, whether you are discussing gender, race, age, height, beauty, etc. All of this has been beaten to a dead horse. Anecdote: I'm a white guy who grew up in the inner city, and one of the most important things I ever did for myself was ridding my ghetto accent. The difference in the way people perceived me over the years is very different. The simple fact is that humans use short-cuts all the time. I may not like the short-cuts, but I can't blame people that heard my inner-city ("black") accent and assumed that I went to schools with lower education standards and that I am culturally different than they are. Bot assumptions are pretty spot-on, to be honest.
  - argv_empty 14y ago
    You bring up a human-nature attitude Did I? Well, I suppose taking a skeptical view towards new research could be described as a "human-nature attitude." I really don't know what exactly you're reading into readme's and my posts.
- readme 14y ago
  Thank you sir, this is exactly my point. The study used the vague undefined term 'sounding black' and it could have meant anything.

mc32 14y ago

People from Cape cod switch to local Boston accent when in Boston. Lots of Britons switch to a London accent when necessary. There is the dominant language which tends to have prestige and speakers of the lesser dialects (not as widespread, accepted, dominant, etc) tend to code switch, as necessary (as they feel appropriate). Even when speaking a second language I did the same. There was what people spoke and what one was taught (in Chinese). Even today I do this. When talking to friends I speak one way, when talking in a professional setting I speak differently --tend to enunciate better and drop the slang, drop contractions and shorthand and the uhms and ahhs, etc. I've seen guys with 'blue collar' speech let go before guys with more educated speech --the blue collar-speech guy was probably better at what he did than the other, but the blue collar guy could be insensitive, as it were, less refined in dealing with others. With regard to names. When I was in the East, I adopted a local first and last name. It's what people kind of expected of me. Some people just Sinolized my North American name, on the other hand.

argv_empty 14y ago

My god, sometimes I wonder where people on Hacker News comes from. You mean to tell me you never heard Will Smith talk? He sounds totally black and totally educated. You never worked with a person that has a "black" accent? And given this distinction between "sounding black" and "sounding unprofessional," one might harbor some doubt as to whether the study in question controlled for perceived professionalism when estimating the effect of perceived blackness. One might even go so far as to post a comment suggesting that factor might have been overlooked or conflated with the phenomenon being estimated.

mc32 14y ago
It would be interesting if they included people who sound 'blue collar' and people who sound like they're from the sticks (hillbilly) in the mix. Not sure what the results wold have been, but it'd be interesting to know. As control, they could add English speaking African immigrants.
dizzystar 14y ago
You bring up a human-nature attitude and the proof is around us all the time, whether you are discussing gender, race, age, height, beauty, etc. All of this has been beaten to a dead horse. Anecdote: I'm a white guy who grew up in the inner city, and one of the most important things I ever did for myself was ridding my ghetto accent. The difference in the way people perceived me over the years is very different. The simple fact is that humans use short-cuts all the time. I may not like the short-cuts, but I can't blame people that heard my inner-city ("black") accent and assumed that I went to schools with lower education standards and that I am culturally different than they are. Bot assumptions are pretty spot-on, to be honest.
- argv_empty 14y ago
  You bring up a human-nature attitude Did I? Well, I suppose taking a skeptical view towards new research could be described as a "human-nature attitude." I really don't know what exactly you're reading into readme's and my posts.
readme 14y ago
Thank you sir, this is exactly my point. The study used the vague undefined term 'sounding black' and it could have meant anything.