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"Gaining acceptance into graduate school or medical school and achieving a PhD or MD and becoming a psychologist or psychiatrist means jumping through many hoop

"Gaining acceptance into graduate school or medical school and achieving a PhD or MD and becoming a psychologist or psychiatrist means jumping through many hoops, all of which require much behavioral and attentional compliance to authorities, even to those authorities that one lacks respect for. The selection and socialization of mental health professionals tends to breed out many anti-authoritarians. Having steered the higher-education terrain for a decade of my life, I know that degrees and credentials are primarily badges of compliance. Those with extended schooling have lived for many years in a world where one routinely conforms to the demands of authorities. Thus for many MDs and PhDs, people different from them who reject this attentional and behavioral compliance appear to be from another world—a diagnosable one." — http://www.madinamerica.com/2012/02/why-anti-authoritarians-are-diagnosed-as-mentally-ill/ http://www.madinamerica.com/2012/02/why-anti-authoritarians-... There are too many everyday people armed with psychiatric terms. Stop it. Many nootropic and psychotropic drugs induce many of those hallucinations. Accept it. And learn how to understand what your body is telling you, rather than treating it like it's some operating table experiment that you'd being graded to poke and prod. Your body is a diagnostician, albeit a cryptic one that has needs, demands and quirks of its own. Most of you simply do not know how to live in your skin because, for one, you were likely raised religious and you've learned how to spite your own "holy temple," not only with deeds but in your minds, your mental habits and cognitive hygiene. Read a book, like Food of the Gods or something about the organic complexity and biodiversity of this world. Understand. Stop fearing Nature, and understand how to become harmonious with it.

DanBC 14y ago
Psychiatrists are doctors; they can prescribe medication. Psychologists don't have to be doctors. They don't even have to treat humans. Perhaps they study humans, perhaps they study cats. The rest of your post is similarly ignorant of the very real harm that can come from ignoring severe and enduring MH problems. Perhaps Bipolar disorder is over diagnosed. Maybe a small number of people cope well without their meds. Meds do have unpleasant side effects. But most people with psychotic illnesses really need the meds to stay functional. > And learn how to understand what your body is telling you, rather than treating it like it's some operating table experiment that you'd being graded to poke and prod. I've talked to people who hear voices. They don't always want the voices to disappear, but they do want some techniques to use so they can know when the voice is just a voice and not real, and so they can cope with some of the negative affects of voices. Is that what you're saying? If you are, fair enough. But if you're saying that psychosis is just a different state of being, just a different part of the spectrum of normal and fine, well, you're wrong.
- nerdfiles 14y ago
  "...albeit a cryptic one..." And I'm saying "Many," dude. "Many." Where are you getting "ignorance" etc? I'm not espousing universals here. I'm not at all saying it's black or white. I too am speaking in generalization which can be subject to counterexample. Read. May I add some color to my writing? Gosh. If you're going to start throwing out "your wrong," I must ask you to read. Read. And we're talking about schizophrenia. Why am I being charged with opinions that I haven't even expressed on psychosis? I'm not here to discuss the whole range of psychosis.
  - DanBC 14y ago
    > Why am I being charged with opinions that I haven't even expressed on psychosis? The article is about a psychotic illness. It's reasonable to assume your comment is about psychosis.
- nerdfiles 14y ago
  And how did you get "ignoring mental health problems?" How did you get that? Honestly? How? I'm telling you to read up on how ancient mysticisms categorize these problems and relate them to advanced, therapeutic drug use. Somehow you got "ignore the problems" when I explicitly tell you to go read alternative research on the topic. Honestly, wtf? My post says "Go read book X" on the matter, and you want to start jumping to claims of "ignorance." Dude.
  - Permit 14y ago
    >Somehow you got "ignore the problems" when I explicitly tell you to go read alternative research on the topic. The point he was making was that reading and relying on such material (ie. "ancient mysticisms") is liable to cause more harm. Explicitly telling someone to read alternative research doesn't mean a thing if that "research" is flawed. One's time would likely be better spent reading modern research. I think the most frustrating thing about your post is all the non-advice you give such as throwing around phrases like "become more harmonious with nature" and "understand".
gbaygon 14y ago
I somehow share your point of view. I've readed McKenna, Robert Anton Wilson, Antero Alli, etc. Even studied Zen and vaious kind of meditation. And know what you mean. But keep in mind that all that knowledge is somewhat buried, there are no modern "shamans" readily available, and if they exist, how would we differentiate them from charlatans?. A person with this kind of "disorders" has a wrong map for reality, and i don't know if it's possible to self cure. On the other hand all this kind of theories are not so mainstream and you will get massively downvoted for expressing your point of view on the matter. On my very humble opinion, this so called disorders are problems with symbols assosiations, combined with very sensitive human beings. And where modern science tries to get the individual to adapt to the environment, older techniques tried to build a new map for reality, using the unique talents that every person has, and reordering the symbols on the mind. Some similarities to this kind of work can be found in NLP (Bandler) and the work of Alejandro Jodorowsky. Maybe shamanism is not the preferred theme in this forum, bu come on guys, shamans where the first hackers! - Sorry if there are errors, i'm in a hurry and english is not my first language.
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- larve 14y ago
  i don't see the big difference with what psychiatrist and psychologists actually do. i have been diagnosed with bipolar I after an intense manic and psychotic break, and the subject of my delusions was actually much of the mckenna RAW zen mysticism combo. it was quite instructive in a sense, and terrifying in another. i was very relieved to find a competent psychiatrist, who prescribed me medication and immediately referred me to a "psychoeducation" group, which is basically a class (not therapy) about handling the illness. we were taught how both medication and behavioral techniques go hand in hand. that sounds very similar to the "body and soul" approach you can read about in RAW etc..., without the crazy. I can assure you that if you wrestle with delusions, the last you want is more crazy concepts designed to fuck with your mind. After that psychoeducation, I went to a psychologists and regularly do some CBT, which is mostly being told as an adult that you should tidy your room and go play outside a bit, and how to keep a balanced life. now all these concepts and medications may lose their "magic" touch, but it is pretty much the same thing isn't it? it just sounds less funky to call someone a competent psychiatrist than calling him a shaman in touch with the chemicals of nature, or a competent psychologist a priest who can read your soul and keep you grounded in the natural world. one thing i learnt too is that meditation is something that actually triggers mania and ultimately psychosis in me. this may sound stupid, but if you have mental issues and especially issues with psychosis or dissociation, don't start to experiment with substances and mental techniques on yourself without making sure you having someone watching out for you. and it's definitely easier to pay someone to do that than put that kind of burden on your family and friends.
rhizome 14y ago
Ah yes, the tell: "cognitive hygiene."

DanBC 14y ago

Psychiatrists are doctors; they can prescribe medication. Psychologists don't have to be doctors. They don't even have to treat humans. Perhaps they study humans, perhaps they study cats. The rest of your post is similarly ignorant of the very real harm that can come from ignoring severe and enduring MH problems. Perhaps Bipolar disorder is over diagnosed. Maybe a small number of people cope well without their meds. Meds do have unpleasant side effects. But most people with psychotic illnesses really need the meds to stay functional. > And learn how to understand what your body is telling you, rather than treating it like it's some operating table experiment that you'd being graded to poke and prod. I've talked to people who hear voices. They don't always want the voices to disappear, but they do want some techniques to use so they can know when the voice is just a voice and not real, and so they can cope with some of the negative affects of voices. Is that what you're saying? If you are, fair enough. But if you're saying that psychosis is just a different state of being, just a different part of the spectrum of normal and fine, well, you're wrong.

nerdfiles 14y ago
"...albeit a cryptic one..." And I'm saying "Many," dude. "Many." Where are you getting "ignorance" etc? I'm not espousing universals here. I'm not at all saying it's black or white. I too am speaking in generalization which can be subject to counterexample. Read. May I add some color to my writing? Gosh. If you're going to start throwing out "your wrong," I must ask you to read. Read. And we're talking about schizophrenia. Why am I being charged with opinions that I haven't even expressed on psychosis? I'm not here to discuss the whole range of psychosis.
- DanBC 14y ago
  > Why am I being charged with opinions that I haven't even expressed on psychosis? The article is about a psychotic illness. It's reasonable to assume your comment is about psychosis.
nerdfiles 14y ago
And how did you get "ignoring mental health problems?" How did you get that? Honestly? How? I'm telling you to read up on how ancient mysticisms categorize these problems and relate them to advanced, therapeutic drug use. Somehow you got "ignore the problems" when I explicitly tell you to go read alternative research on the topic. Honestly, wtf? My post says "Go read book X" on the matter, and you want to start jumping to claims of "ignorance." Dude.
- Permit 14y ago
  >Somehow you got "ignore the problems" when I explicitly tell you to go read alternative research on the topic. The point he was making was that reading and relying on such material (ie. "ancient mysticisms") is liable to cause more harm. Explicitly telling someone to read alternative research doesn't mean a thing if that "research" is flawed. One's time would likely be better spent reading modern research. I think the most frustrating thing about your post is all the non-advice you give such as throwing around phrases like "become more harmonious with nature" and "understand".

gbaygon 14y ago

I somehow share your point of view. I've readed McKenna, Robert Anton Wilson, Antero Alli, etc. Even studied Zen and vaious kind of meditation. And know what you mean. But keep in mind that all that knowledge is somewhat buried, there are no modern "shamans" readily available, and if they exist, how would we differentiate them from charlatans?. A person with this kind of "disorders" has a wrong map for reality, and i don't know if it's possible to self cure. On the other hand all this kind of theories are not so mainstream and you will get massively downvoted for expressing your point of view on the matter. On my very humble opinion, this so called disorders are problems with symbols assosiations, combined with very sensitive human beings. And where modern science tries to get the individual to adapt to the environment, older techniques tried to build a new map for reality, using the unique talents that every person has, and reordering the symbols on the mind. Some similarities to this kind of work can be found in NLP (Bandler) and the work of Alejandro Jodorowsky. Maybe shamanism is not the preferred theme in this forum, bu come on guys, shamans where the first hackers! - Sorry if there are errors, i'm in a hurry and english is not my first language.

deleted 14y ago
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deleted 14y ago
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larve 14y ago
i don't see the big difference with what psychiatrist and psychologists actually do. i have been diagnosed with bipolar I after an intense manic and psychotic break, and the subject of my delusions was actually much of the mckenna RAW zen mysticism combo. it was quite instructive in a sense, and terrifying in another. i was very relieved to find a competent psychiatrist, who prescribed me medication and immediately referred me to a "psychoeducation" group, which is basically a class (not therapy) about handling the illness. we were taught how both medication and behavioral techniques go hand in hand. that sounds very similar to the "body and soul" approach you can read about in RAW etc..., without the crazy. I can assure you that if you wrestle with delusions, the last you want is more crazy concepts designed to fuck with your mind. After that psychoeducation, I went to a psychologists and regularly do some CBT, which is mostly being told as an adult that you should tidy your room and go play outside a bit, and how to keep a balanced life. now all these concepts and medications may lose their "magic" touch, but it is pretty much the same thing isn't it? it just sounds less funky to call someone a competent psychiatrist than calling him a shaman in touch with the chemicals of nature, or a competent psychologist a priest who can read your soul and keep you grounded in the natural world. one thing i learnt too is that meditation is something that actually triggers mania and ultimately psychosis in me. this may sound stupid, but if you have mental issues and especially issues with psychosis or dissociation, don't start to experiment with substances and mental techniques on yourself without making sure you having someone watching out for you. and it's definitely easier to pay someone to do that than put that kind of burden on your family and friends.

rhizome 14y ago

Ah yes, the tell: "cognitive hygiene."