4 ms·

It is not so obvious. There's a lot of suffering going on in your country too. Charity comes from the heart, and where you should direct your love is your own

by tinco 14y ago

It is not so obvious. There's a lot of suffering going on in your country too. Charity comes from the heart, and where you should direct your love is your own choice. If you feel the people in your country are closer to you, there's no shame in helping them before others. We are human after all.

philwelch 14y ago
> If you feel the people in your country are closer to you That's the nationalistic bigotry I was talking about. That's like saying if there was a charity that only helped white people, maybe I should contribute to that because I feel that people of European descent are "closer to me".
- tinco 14y ago
  It is not bigotry, you are misinformed. Black people contributing to http://blackcharities.net/ http://blackcharities.net/ are not bigots, they merely support those whose fate they identify with.
  - philwelch 14y ago
    Sure, people are more likely to help those they identify with. That means they're more likely to ignore the plight of people they don't identify with. And that is bigotry. And criticizing a charity for not enabling that is also bigotry.
- loceng 14y ago
  If you did that it could mean you're racist, the act of donating to such a cause doesn't make the act itself bigotry though IMHO. The intent behind a charity is what would be a determining factor for me - not in the end who it ends up helping, though that likely plays a role in most people's decisions.
tptacek 14y ago
Nobody is saying you shouldn't give to local people in need. There are clearly many deserving outlets for charity.
- tinco 14y ago
  Someone is saying giving to local people is nationalist and bigotry, I am merely refuting that.
  - philwelch 14y ago
    There are some ways that I preferentially give to local people because it's easier. I've helped more street beggars in my neighborhood than in Port au Prince because I don't walk down the streets of Port au Prince. But when it comes to paying for perfect strangers to receive medical treatment, and I'm choosing between someone in the US, whose medical treatment costs more, and who will receive the medical treatment anyway at the risk of personal bankruptcy, vs. someone who wouldn't receive the treatment at all in Port au Prince, you can't make an argument that I should give to the American. The American will get the treatment with or without my help. He might just end up bankrupt, but being bankrupt in America is not that bad. In fact, there's a good chance there will be no bankruptcy and the American will just have to go on a payment plan for the next few years. The Haitian won't receive the treatment at all. In fact, even after the treatment, the Haitian will still have to live in Haiti, which is probably a materially poorer existence than being bankrupt or having to make a payment plan in America. Providing less help to someone who is in lesser need of it at greater expense, just because you share a nationality with them, is bigotry, and you've said nothing to refute that.
    - loceng 14y ago
      The question is does giving your money directly to a street person help them more than giving it to a shelter so there are more places for people to sleep at night, and healthy food for them - or is it just faster and stronger gratification / reward for you? Not saying this as a put-down.
    - tinco 14y ago

by tinco 14y ago

philwelch 14y ago

> If you feel the people in your country are closer to you That's the nationalistic bigotry I was talking about. That's like saying if there was a charity that only helped white people, maybe I should contribute to that because I feel that people of European descent are "closer to me".

tinco 14y ago
It is not bigotry, you are misinformed. Black people contributing to http://blackcharities.net/ http://blackcharities.net/ are not bigots, they merely support those whose fate they identify with.
- philwelch 14y ago
  Sure, people are more likely to help those they identify with. That means they're more likely to ignore the plight of people they don't identify with. And that is bigotry. And criticizing a charity for not enabling that is also bigotry.
loceng 14y ago
If you did that it could mean you're racist, the act of donating to such a cause doesn't make the act itself bigotry though IMHO. The intent behind a charity is what would be a determining factor for me - not in the end who it ends up helping, though that likely plays a role in most people's decisions.

tptacek 14y ago

Nobody is saying you shouldn't give to local people in need. There are clearly many deserving outlets for charity.

tinco 14y ago
Someone is saying giving to local people is nationalist and bigotry, I am merely refuting that.
- philwelch 14y ago
  There are some ways that I preferentially give to local people because it's easier. I've helped more street beggars in my neighborhood than in Port au Prince because I don't walk down the streets of Port au Prince. But when it comes to paying for perfect strangers to receive medical treatment, and I'm choosing between someone in the US, whose medical treatment costs more, and who will receive the medical treatment anyway at the risk of personal bankruptcy, vs. someone who wouldn't receive the treatment at all in Port au Prince, you can't make an argument that I should give to the American. The American will get the treatment with or without my help. He might just end up bankrupt, but being bankrupt in America is not that bad. In fact, there's a good chance there will be no bankruptcy and the American will just have to go on a payment plan for the next few years. The Haitian won't receive the treatment at all. In fact, even after the treatment, the Haitian will still have to live in Haiti, which is probably a materially poorer existence than being bankrupt or having to make a payment plan in America. Providing less help to someone who is in lesser need of it at greater expense, just because you share a nationality with them, is bigotry, and you've said nothing to refute that.
  - loceng 14y ago
    The question is does giving your money directly to a street person help them more than giving it to a shelter so there are more places for people to sleep at night, and healthy food for them - or is it just faster and stronger gratification / reward for you? Not saying this as a put-down.
  - tinco 14y ago