6 ms·

Fuck it, I'll Do This Alone

222 points by peachananr 14y ago

phatbyte 14y ago
Except if you want to apply for YC... unfortunately
tmh88j 14y ago
To each his own. Half the fun of traveling is the friends you're with, for me at least. The first time I went to NYC and SF I spent ~8 hours wandering around by myself (friends were still working) and I didn't get much enjoyment out of it. Sure I talked to some random people, but honestly I was bored after about 2 hours. The moments I remember and enjoyed were spent with friends, regardless of the location.
- thisisandyok 14y ago
  True, but I think the point of the post is not to miss out on things because you don't have a group.
  - tmh88j 14y ago
    I understand the underlying point, but I don't agree in every situation, such as travel which I explained. Most leisure related activities are enjoyable to me because I have someone close to share the experience with.
    - thisisandyok 14y ago
      I understand your point and I mostly agree, it's usually better to share experiences with someone than go it alone. On the other hand, flying solo is better than not going at all. I really wanted to run the Disney World Marathon last year, but I couldn't get a group together. If I had decided to pass I would have missed what turned out to be one of my favorite trips ever.
- dpark 14y ago
  More than half for me. I was in Munich by myself once. It was boring as hell. I ended up shifting my travel plans so I could leave a day early. The next time I went I had a friend and it was awesome. Munich didn't change much in between these trips. The company did. On the other hand, I know people who love to travel alone. They might disappear into Budapest for 2 weeks and tell tales of how awesome it was when they resurface. It depends a lot on the individual.
  - frabcus 14y ago
    It depends on the place too. I'm from Europe, and find travel alone in Europe a little dull. Travel in Asia is so interesting, I prefer it alone.
- deleted 14y ago
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- untog 14y ago
  For me at least, it varies. One of my fondest memories (and possibly one of my best life memories) is travelling around the US for three months with my best friend. I will likely never replicate that experience. But that said, I just took a four day trip to Germany by myself and I loved it. I think I spoke less than thirty words to anyone on most of those days, and found it tremendously relaxing to just walk around a museum by myself, alone in my thoughts. I took a three hour train ride to Poland just because I wanted to, and I loved sitting there by myself watching people in rural East Germany go about their business. It's a lot more difficult to be a fly on the wall when you're with someone, because the minute you open your mouth it's evident you are an outsider. But on the other hand, I'm extremely reluctant to approach complete strangers and strike up conversation. When I'm with someone, it happens naturally. When I'm by myself, I will be alone for the duration of my trip.
jere 14y ago
Sure, you shouldn't let your friends hold you back. But I wouldn't underestimate the value of spending time with friends/family. One quote from Robb Wolf has always stuck with me: "It's understood that people who don't have enough social connections, they have as high a rate of mortality and morbidity as a pack a day smoker." http://youtu.be/Tvh23EnFDio http://youtu.be/Tvh23EnFDio Maybe if your friends are holding you back then you should find new friends? The thought of going to restaurants alone isn't particularly inspiring to me. If you'll indulge me, here's a song about it: http://youtu.be/MnqdNErdVcU http://youtu.be/MnqdNErdVcU
- grimgrin 14y ago
  I can do two days at the gym, I can even socialize (I wonder if he he'd count 25% physical realm 75% internet realm relationships as healthy), but I don't know if I'll get out and do organic, open ended activities (frisbee, running with dog). I'm definitely going to have to listen to more of this Robb Wolf, though. Thanks.
- oinksoft 14y ago
  "It's understood that people who don't have enough social connections, they have as high a rate of mortality and morbidity as a pack a day smoker." How is it understood? I've seen things here and there about an active social life in old age being a key contributor to longevity, but are there any studies indeed showing that the health risk of being a loner (for all of one's life, or for some part of it) is equal to that of smoking a pack of cigarettes a day?
  - jere 14y ago
    I actually had never looked up the studies Wolf was referencing before (naively, perhaps, I trust the guy to have reviewed the literature). But I think he is probably referencing this: >Researchers at Brigham Young University and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill pooled data from 148 studies on health outcomes and social relationships — every research paper on the topic they could find, involving more than 300,000 men and women across the developed world — and found that those with poor social connections had on average 50% higher odds of death in the study's follow-up period (an average of 7.5 years) than people with more robust social ties. That boost in longevity is about as large as the mortality difference observed between smokers and nonsmokers, the study's authors say. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2006938,00.html http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2006938,00.ht...
solox3 14y ago
Travelling? Two is always better than one. If you break a leg in Thailand, someone can help you to the hospital. If you have a friend who lives in Korea, he can be your Seoul mate. Going on a roller coaster? You can sit beside someone you know. Ordered some weird food that you don't like? Just swap with the friend next to you. Two is better than one.
- kordless 14y ago
  I was just in Thailand for Christmas. I can tell you definitively people there will help you in a heartbeat if you get hurt. Alone or not. The Thais are absolutely wonderful people.
  - solox3 14y ago
    I was going for "the advantages of companionship", not "strange people don't help you".
  - scarmig 14y ago
    I'm sure the Thais are absolutely wonderful, but do you really think that in the USA or France or Egypt people would just let you lay on the ground in pain with a broken leg?
- ericbrooke 14y ago
  I disagree. I went travelling around the world on my own. In fact I was never alone because I was open to meeting new people and met a lot of people. Friends travelling in pairs tend not to make new friends so easily, until they get sick of each other. I made some amazing friends this way. I know lot of female friends think differently due to safety, and this is fair.
- gdulli 14y ago
  "always" I often wonder what kind of mindset it takes in order to so easily and naturally conflate personal values with objective truth.
  - 14y ago
golgo13 14y ago
Sounds like the lunch time running club at work. It's just me, now. And I'm not even the organizer...
B-Con 14y ago
It just depends on your goals. For a lot of people, these kinds of activities are, on some level, a social catalyst. For those, it doesn't make sense to do many of them without the social part. But if you're simply interested in the event itself, you shouldn't feel any need to wait for others to participate. I golf by myself routinely, and back when I went to the movies I would go by myself if it made sense. I wanted to do those things, regardless of who participated. I know many others, though, who would not say the same thing.
grabeh 14y ago
I don't think there's much to be gained from stating either way whether you prefer solo or group travel. I have personally enjoyed travelling solo and with friends. They both have positives and negatives. As people have said at least you are guaranteed company with friends around, and there's much to be said for sharing experiences with someone who you know inside-out or at least well. Having said that, travelling solo has always pushed me out of my comfort zone into seeking out company (if I was in the mood for conversing). Meeting like-minded people in new countries has always for me been a very enjoyable experience. It's fair to say also that even being in close proximity with a good friend can lead to friction on occasion because that close proximity can be a very different experience to your usual relationship away from travelling. Perhaps I should select my friends better though!
- _delirium 14y ago
  Yes, I'm a bit confused by what people are taking away from this post. There are advantages to doing things individually, and to doing things collaboratively, and I'm interested in the relationship between those. But I don't feel like I learned much from this article about either one. Is it just the self-help-book-esque "be yourself, don't let anyone hold you back" message?
  - coryl 14y ago
    Hypothesis: some people have a social 'security blanket' and are unwilling to do things alone, and thus miss out on opportunities to do interesting things. Perhaps OP was one of those people, and is now sharing/inspiring others to do the same.
ghc 14y ago
I don't know about anyone else, but I feel extremely awkward going to nice restaurants alone even if I bring something to do. I don't experience this feeling anywhere else...just restaurants. I think I'd be more likely to travel alone than to go out to a nice restaurant down the street alone.
- dylanz 14y ago
  Hah! I came here for this comment. My friends actually pick fun of me when I tell them I go to restaurants alone, but I thoroughly enjoy it. I'll usually bring in a notebook, a book, or something to do... and... take, my, time. I'm on my own schedule when I eat alone. I can eat as slow as I want to, I can order as fast as I want and what I want, I don't have to think of things to talk about, etc. I absolutely love people watching as well, so when I want to take a break from my food or my work, I can sit back and look around the room and check people out. I'm that guy. I love it.
  - nlavezzo 14y ago
    I'm that guy too. If you really want to throw people for a loop, bring a notebook to thoughtfully write in and snap pictures of your delicious food. I had no idea until after a few times doing this in Italy that everyone was assuming I was a travel writer / food critic. I literally had people at other tables ask me who I wrote for, and when I told them no one they didn't believe me and begged me to tell. It was awesome :)
    - nicholassmith 14y ago
      In some places in England if you're spotted doing this they'll think you're a 'mystery shopper' and you get the 11 out of 10 service level.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
  - bradleyjg 14y ago
    For me part of the awkwardness is purely physical. Talking doesn't require extensive use of your hands and the person you are talking to are generally at eye level. Whereas reading and writing feel much more like an interruption to the meal rather than a compliment to it.
deleted 14y ago
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zx2c4 14y ago
Fuck it, I'll do it live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_HyZ5aW76c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_HyZ5aW76c
simonsarris 14y ago
I too used to be plagued by wishy-washy friends, and since waiting on finalization of plans can be a real pain, I decided to find some ways to deal with them. The first thing I did was set up a google group for my friends. There are about 20 memebers in it and we share stuff between each other by email occasionally but also make plans. The second thing I learned was never to entice people or make plans, but simply to announce plans. I'd email the group: "I'm going hiking at Franconia Notch this weekend if anyone is interested. Leaving from my house around 10AM Saturday." That's it. No waiting for replys, no waiting on people at all. If you want to come with me you'll be around at 10AM Saturday or you won't. There's no frustration if its only me going, as I intended to go alone, and if anyone wants to come along then that's a pleasant surprise. But I won't base my activity schedule around waiting for them. Surprisingly, since I started doing this, more people seem to come along. Motivation is contagious, I think, and it seems the thought of someone else already 100% committed to doing something makes it easier in the minds of others to commit themselves. So make it easy for your friends. This way they don't feel guilty or obligated one way or the other, which is a huge relief for some personality types. Later, I made a second google group for announcing house dinners, and now regularly 5-15 people show up every wednesday and we cook and eat together.
- Lucadg 14y ago
  yes yes yes! I realized this long time ago. Don't ask who joins. Announce you are going. They will follow. If they don't, fine. It makes it all so much easier. Many people have just followed all their lives and that's what they like to do.
  - imissmyjuno 14y ago
    It has the added benefit of no one getting upset in case you have to change your plans. You were just inviting them to join you, versus you agreed to meet up together and then flaked out. Most people in my experience treat those two identical situations differently.
  - dlib 14y ago
    After long, long e-mail discussions over plans with friends I also started using this approach. Just go, see who comes along. Makes organising much easier, and somehow I also care less if friends don't show up. It's my party, the more the merrier but if you're not there, your loss. Wish I knew this two years ago, would've saved me quite some time and hassle.
javert 14y ago
This article is good in concept, but has too much emotion-laden hyperbole for my taste.
phatbyte 14y ago
I don't think most people actually understood what the author meant. He said that nothing should hold you back even if you are alone to do it. He never said he doesn't like to go out with friends. He said we need to learn to do things on our own sometimes.
roflc0ptic 14y ago
There seems to be a strain of thought, especially prevelant in the programming community, that really romanticizes acting alone. I really wonder if we should romanticize it. I used to live like this - I would go to shows alone, eat out alone, go to movies alone. I'd go hiking by myself, I'd go on long bike rides by myself. At the time I didn't have the resources to go on trips by myself, but I would've done that, too. And it wasn't like I was a pariah. I've always had friends and family around. I've never needed to be single. I just felt like I required this constant solitude, and because of that, enforced a certain distance in my relationships. As I've gotten older and learned more of how to need other people, I'm kind of horrified at all of the lost opportunities. The friendships I didn't form. I would really hate for young guys [who I assume comprise much of HN's readership] to read this and say "Yeah, I should go this world alone!" Sometimes this attitude may be called for, but more often than not it will not serve you well.
- vidarh 14y ago
  There's a big difference between being able to enjoy going out alone when nobody you know are around, and constantly seeking it out. Losing out on great experiences because you're worried about doing it on your own is a shame. But losing out on great companionship is too. They don't need to compete. For many of the same reasons you mention, a lot of guys here should probably be ready to go out alone more. Not instead of doing stuff with friends, but when the alternative is to stay at home or do other activities that pretty much guarantee solitude. If you go out and do stuff, at least your chances of meeting new people is substantially higher.
- MatthewPhillips 14y ago
  I'm just the opposite. As I get older I want to hang out with friends less, as I have less time anyways so the time I do have becomes more precious. I enjoy my do-nothing Saturdays. I enjoy my coffee-and-coding Saturdays. I also enjoy the hanging out with friends Saturdays, just not every single Saturday like when I was younger.
nlavezzo 14y ago
I came to this conclusion between the sophomore and junior years of college when I had the money to take a trip to Italy but none of my friends did. I'd never been further than Mexico, but I did it. Being there alone was exhilarating - almost like the feeling of being hiking in the wilderness far enough away from people that if you broke a leg, you'd be in serious trouble. There is something wonderful about being far away from everything you know is safe and comfortable. I think there's a part of you that you can only find doing things like that.
Irregardless 14y ago
After reading the first paragraph, I thought he was about to announce a new startup that helps individual travelers find each other to plan group excursions around the world. I left disappointed :/
- EGreg 14y ago
  We have that startup :) But it's mostly for people to help plan things locally and spontaneously. And we keep track of people saying yes and then no. It's called Groups.
DigitalTurk 14y ago
As a rule, I prefer traveling on my own. That way I can take my time to walk wherever I want and get a better 'feel' for the city. For instance, I love to go out into the city without a map sometimes. I often even go out of my way to eat in cheap, dirty places because I want to know what the locals eat. Sometimes I even go out of my way to explore the boring and the ugly parts of town. It's difficult to find travel partners that share these interests. :) Additionally, when I'm traveling with someone else I get distracted by conversations. That means I fail to notice tons of things. Also, I have experienced that my travel companion(s) would take me to all sorts of interesting places and then afterwards I'm unable to pinpoint on a map where I've been. That kind of sucks. It's also much easier to start interesting conversations with locals or other travelers when you're not in a group. I'm never lonely. I often stay in hostels so I can usually talk to other solo travelers. And sometimes I hit couchsurfing.org and meet up with individuals or groups.
- user911302966 14y ago
  Yes, DigitalTurk, locals everywhere seek out the "cheap, dirty places" to eat. This attitude reeks of pretention and adolescence.
david927 14y ago
If you want to do something, and you make that contingent upon another person, you've introduced fragility to your goal. I've heard that a popular reason startups fail is co-founder disagreement, but that is just another way of saying there was a failure in leadership.
grecy 14y ago
My Friends all thought I was crazy when I invited them to drive from Alaska -> Argentina with me. The choice was clear, go alone, or don't go at all. I had a life changing two year adventure. theroadchoseme.com
- cgh 14y ago
  What a fantastic trip. The same thing happened to me (sort of): I wanted to go to Turkey straight out of university. Why Turkey, I'm still not sure, except I liked the look of it (I'm a climber). I had very little money but lots of time. Anyway, my friends bailed so I went alone. I stayed for four months, went everywhere, climbed mountains and rocks, learned some Turkish and did all the usual travel stuff. The main thing I learned was self-reliance. I found I was very capable at dealing with uncertainty all on my own. So I followed this trip up with solo trips to France, Thailand, etc., all climbing-related. It's enough to say that I'd be a different person if I hadn't made the decision to go to Turkey with or without companions.
enoughisenough 14y ago
Attn: HN "editors" or whatever the hell you call yourself. Hang your heads in shame for this getting to the front page. Am I missing the point of this site? I mean ffs has the word hacker been so utterly and completely co-opted and overused as to have no meaning any more?
bbx 14y ago
When living in Paris, I wanted to attend many concerts but oftentimes I ended up not going because I couldn't find anyone to come with me. Looking at the many concerts I missed because of that, I decided to automatically buy 2 tickets for each event and ask my friends afterwards, stating that I had an extra ticket. I ended up attending many concerts with one of my friends, and rarely had to sell my extra ticket. On a side note, two years ago, a group of friends invited me to join them for a 10-days trip in Turkey. They would fly directly from Paris to Istanbul. I lived in Bordeaux then and figured: why don't I go to Istanbul by train on my own? It took me 2 weeks to get there, and along the road I stopped at Milan, Florence, Venice, Ljubljana, Zagreb and Belgrade (plus Munich, Vienna, Budapest, Krakow and Berlin on my way back). I knew that noone would have agreed to come with me and I immediately felt that I had taken the right decision. It was a sudden one but I don't regret it. I met wonderful people and visited beautiful places, and I realize that depending on someone else's decision would have prevented me from doing these things.
EGreg 14y ago
We are building an app to solve this exact problem. It's called Groups and has almost a million downloads by now. This is a common problem for a lot of people. Will let you guys know when we launch the features to solve it, later this year.
njharman 14y ago
I think I'm kind of a loner. I have zero problems doing things alone. Most things (esp trips, hiking, biking) I want to do alone. I need alone time. Time away from all the hassles and pressures of "socialness". Time to be selfish. To pause when others might want to go, to go when others might want to pause. Also, early in life I got real tired of being let down / of the unreliability of people. So, instead of repeating the same activity and expecting a different outcome I quit trying or wanting to participate in planned group activities.
davycro 14y ago
I think that friends always bailing on you is a sign that you are boring. Reading this article reminded me of this quote from Anne Lamott: "There are certain people whose company you love, whose mind you love to pick, whose running commentary totally holds your attention, who makes you laugh out loud. When you have a friend like this, she can say: “Hey, I’ve got to drive up to the dump in Petaluma—wanna come along?” and you honestly can’t think of anything in the world you’d rather do. By the same token, a boring or annoying person can offer to buy you an expensive dinner, followed by tickets to a great show, and in all honesty you’d rather stay home and watch the Jello harden."
jwmoz 14y ago
For the first 10 months of 2012 I planned a trip to Thailand, taking time off contracting. I too became fed up of mates not being able to come with me so in the end thought fuck it, I'll go on my own. The day I posted my plans my mate got in touch and said he'd come with me for 3 weeks. Those 3 weeks we basically argued like a married couple, there were good times, obviously, but we are both very different people. Anyway, as soon as he left me in Cambodia, the trip turned into one of the best experiences of my life. I went where I wanted, I did what I wanted. I had crazy nights out and the trip was an adventure. I went to see my friend in Koh Phangan and stayed at his dive shop for a few weeks for free. I made friends with the locals and regularly got invited out with everyone. I had 2 of the most unbelievable experiences of my life partying in Haad Riin. I ended up with a girlfriend for 3 months whilst I was there. I met up with an old friend in Malaysia and stayed with her for free in a 5 star hotel for a week - she was on business and got a twin room for me. I met a girl in Bangkok who ended up driving me around the city in her Range Rover and taking me out to clubs. One day I decided to rent a motocross bike and rode it 35km up to the top of Bokor mountain in Cambodia - an amazing experience, more so on the way back down. All of these things happened when I was on my own. Once I left my friend, I could do exactly what I wanted. There were times when it was hard, e.g. going to clubs on your own, or places where everybody is in a group, but in the end it paid off. Now I'm the guy who just does what he wants. This year I'll go away again to maybe South Korea or the Philippines; I haven't even considered asking someone to go with me. So yeh, don't be that guy stressing about not having anyone to go places with, fuck it, go on your own.
- rmc 14y ago
  Traveling with someone can be difficult. Just because you're friends with someone doesn't mean you'll both enjoy living on top of each other for a while.
pfortuny 14y ago
Well, great idea: enjoying good things alone. I do it a lot of times). There is no special need for friends in order to enjoy a good meal, a good concert or a good film or a good sightseeing. There is a time to enjoy alone and a time to gather together. Glad you have discovered this. Edit: and there is no need to 'fuck it', one should do these things by himself from time to time. There is no obligation to enjoy with others.
stevewilhelm 14y ago
As a solo runner who trained for and completed the Dipsea and US Half marathon last year, I say go it alone but let someone know where you are going and when you plan on getting back. And carry a rock solid cell phone. I have a Verizon pay as you go basic phone http://s831.us/Pn4ZDD http://s831.us/Pn4ZDD. It's always charged and can pick up cell coverage where my smartphone can't.
misiti3780 14y ago
I just booked a trip to Vietnam/Cambodia alone with the same thought in mind - no one was willing to commit, and I still wanted to go
baby 14y ago
If you want people to follow you, you must have the balls to lead alone first.
Zarathust 14y ago
I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul
bluekite2000 14y ago
This boils down to your personality, not on external factors like who you are with, where you go or what you do. Are you an extrovert, introvert or ambivert? Figure out who you are then everything will make sense
- malenm 14y ago
  Thanks for this - I'm very much an ambivert but never heard the term until today.
  - bluekite2000 14y ago
    Have you read a book called To sell is human? The author goes in depth on this.
baby 14y ago
Nicholas Christakis: The hidden influence of social networks [1] : Should we do things alone, so as not to be contaminated by our friends/entourage. Or Should we get surrounded by the most people. Also, doing things alone FIRST allows you to get surrounded by those interesting people that will follow wherever you will go and whatever you will do [1] http://www.ted.com/talks/nicholas_christakis_the_hidden_influence_of_social_networks.html http://www.ted.com/talks/nicholas_christakis_the_hidden_infl...
mercuryrising 14y ago
So my goal is to be a "Millionaire by May". I have 0 dollars right now (living in my parent's basement), and am close to an MVP. I'm going to start a company by myself, do everything myself, rake in the profits by myself. It'll be hard as hell, but by doing it myself I get to learn all the facets, and don't have to communicate my half assed desires (make it more blue-green!). I have a fluorescent dollar sign on my desk, whenever the going gets rough (or I don't want to do it anymore), the dollar sign goes on. Reminds me of my goal. I've been pumping myself up recently with two things - excuses are just fear, and shoot for simplicity, not efficiency (if it's simple, it's likely pretty damn efficient). Unless there is a ridiculous technical problem, there is generally a way around a problem with a little bit of creativity and elbow grease. Excuses are just lack of desire to find those routes.
davidwparker 14y ago
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned traveling with your significant other / spouse / girlfriend / wife / boyfriend / husband. I've made quite a few trips and it's generally not hard to plan something together with my wife, so long as we do it early enough so she can get off work. She loves eating out, so it's never hard to ask her to eat out with me. In general, she'll do most things with me, so long as they're not hardcore physical activities (mountain climbing, long distance runs, etc)- but even those she'll go watch if she's able.
rwhitman 14y ago
This happened to me the exact same way. Couldn't get anyone on board so I bought a plane ticket to Hong Kong by myself randomly one night and it was one of the best trips I've ever taken. I've done a few other solo trips since. I think the thing I like the most is the sense of ultimate freedom - no arguments or drama, disasters out of your control etc. Everything you do is because you chose to do it. If you make a mistake and screw something up, nobody is going to complain. After being in a relationship for 7 years I really long to get those moments back...
mberning 14y ago
This breaks down when it comes time to make reservations and other arrangements where money becomes involved. I've found that asking for a deposit on things like lodging and tickets really weeds out who is serious and who is not.
mixmastamyk 14y ago
I remember coming to grips with this myself. Turns out most people have different priorities than I, such as buying a new car rather than say... diving in Australia for a few months? A few things I've learned: The true test comes when it is time to pay. If you can move that part up, then you will save a lot of time. Don't sweat it if the couch potatoes at home don't make it. You'll make friends at the destination, people who actually do things rather than talk about them. Also, agree with simonsarris' comment that announcing plans takes the uncertainty out of the exchange.
antoaravinth 14y ago
I felt that I wrote this article. This is my exact though process too.
chris_wot 14y ago
Footloose and fancyfree- try that with kids :-)

222 points by peachananr 14y ago

Except if you want to apply for YC... unfortunately

To each his own. Half the fun of traveling is the friends you're with, for me at least. The first time I went to NYC and SF I spent ~8 hours wandering around by myself (friends were still working) and I didn't get much enjoyment out of it. Sure I talked to some random people, but honestly I was bored after about 2 hours. The moments I remember and enjoyed were spent with friends, regardless of the location.

thisisandyok 14y ago
True, but I think the point of the post is not to miss out on things because you don't have a group.
- tmh88j 14y ago
  I understand the underlying point, but I don't agree in every situation, such as travel which I explained. Most leisure related activities are enjoyable to me because I have someone close to share the experience with.
  - thisisandyok 14y ago
    I understand your point and I mostly agree, it's usually better to share experiences with someone than go it alone. On the other hand, flying solo is better than not going at all. I really wanted to run the Disney World Marathon last year, but I couldn't get a group together. If I had decided to pass I would have missed what turned out to be one of my favorite trips ever.
dpark 14y ago
More than half for me. I was in Munich by myself once. It was boring as hell. I ended up shifting my travel plans so I could leave a day early. The next time I went I had a friend and it was awesome. Munich didn't change much in between these trips. The company did. On the other hand, I know people who love to travel alone. They might disappear into Budapest for 2 weeks and tell tales of how awesome it was when they resurface. It depends a lot on the individual.
- frabcus 14y ago
  It depends on the place too. I'm from Europe, and find travel alone in Europe a little dull. Travel in Asia is so interesting, I prefer it alone.
deleted 14y ago
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untog 14y ago
For me at least, it varies. One of my fondest memories (and possibly one of my best life memories) is travelling around the US for three months with my best friend. I will likely never replicate that experience. But that said, I just took a four day trip to Germany by myself and I loved it. I think I spoke less than thirty words to anyone on most of those days, and found it tremendously relaxing to just walk around a museum by myself, alone in my thoughts. I took a three hour train ride to Poland just because I wanted to, and I loved sitting there by myself watching people in rural East Germany go about their business. It's a lot more difficult to be a fly on the wall when you're with someone, because the minute you open your mouth it's evident you are an outsider. But on the other hand, I'm extremely reluctant to approach complete strangers and strike up conversation. When I'm with someone, it happens naturally. When I'm by myself, I will be alone for the duration of my trip.

jere 14y ago

Sure, you shouldn't let your friends hold you back. But I wouldn't underestimate the value of spending time with friends/family. One quote from Robb Wolf has always stuck with me: "It's understood that people who don't have enough social connections, they have as high a rate of mortality and morbidity as a pack a day smoker." http://youtu.be/Tvh23EnFDio http://youtu.be/Tvh23EnFDio Maybe if your friends are holding you back then you should find new friends? The thought of going to restaurants alone isn't particularly inspiring to me. If you'll indulge me, here's a song about it: http://youtu.be/MnqdNErdVcU http://youtu.be/MnqdNErdVcU

grimgrin 14y ago
I can do two days at the gym, I can even socialize (I wonder if he he'd count 25% physical realm 75% internet realm relationships as healthy), but I don't know if I'll get out and do organic, open ended activities (frisbee, running with dog). I'm definitely going to have to listen to more of this Robb Wolf, though. Thanks.
oinksoft 14y ago
"It's understood that people who don't have enough social connections, they have as high a rate of mortality and morbidity as a pack a day smoker." How is it understood? I've seen things here and there about an active social life in old age being a key contributor to longevity, but are there any studies indeed showing that the health risk of being a loner (for all of one's life, or for some part of it) is equal to that of smoking a pack of cigarettes a day?
- jere 14y ago
  I actually had never looked up the studies Wolf was referencing before (naively, perhaps, I trust the guy to have reviewed the literature). But I think he is probably referencing this: >Researchers at Brigham Young University and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill pooled data from 148 studies on health outcomes and social relationships — every research paper on the topic they could find, involving more than 300,000 men and women across the developed world — and found that those with poor social connections had on average 50% higher odds of death in the study's follow-up period (an average of 7.5 years) than people with more robust social ties. That boost in longevity is about as large as the mortality difference observed between smokers and nonsmokers, the study's authors say. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2006938,00.html http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2006938,00.ht...

solox3 14y ago

Travelling? Two is always better than one. If you break a leg in Thailand, someone can help you to the hospital. If you have a friend who lives in Korea, he can be your Seoul mate. Going on a roller coaster? You can sit beside someone you know. Ordered some weird food that you don't like? Just swap with the friend next to you. Two is better than one.

kordless 14y ago
I was just in Thailand for Christmas. I can tell you definitively people there will help you in a heartbeat if you get hurt. Alone or not. The Thais are absolutely wonderful people.
- solox3 14y ago
  I was going for "the advantages of companionship", not "strange people don't help you".
- scarmig 14y ago
  I'm sure the Thais are absolutely wonderful, but do you really think that in the USA or France or Egypt people would just let you lay on the ground in pain with a broken leg?
ericbrooke 14y ago
I disagree. I went travelling around the world on my own. In fact I was never alone because I was open to meeting new people and met a lot of people. Friends travelling in pairs tend not to make new friends so easily, until they get sick of each other. I made some amazing friends this way. I know lot of female friends think differently due to safety, and this is fair.
gdulli 14y ago
"always" I often wonder what kind of mindset it takes in order to so easily and naturally conflate personal values with objective truth.
- 14y ago

golgo13 14y ago

Sounds like the lunch time running club at work. It's just me, now. And I'm not even the organizer...

B-Con 14y ago

It just depends on your goals. For a lot of people, these kinds of activities are, on some level, a social catalyst. For those, it doesn't make sense to do many of them without the social part. But if you're simply interested in the event itself, you shouldn't feel any need to wait for others to participate. I golf by myself routinely, and back when I went to the movies I would go by myself if it made sense. I wanted to do those things, regardless of who participated. I know many others, though, who would not say the same thing.

grabeh 14y ago

I don't think there's much to be gained from stating either way whether you prefer solo or group travel. I have personally enjoyed travelling solo and with friends. They both have positives and negatives. As people have said at least you are guaranteed company with friends around, and there's much to be said for sharing experiences with someone who you know inside-out or at least well. Having said that, travelling solo has always pushed me out of my comfort zone into seeking out company (if I was in the mood for conversing). Meeting like-minded people in new countries has always for me been a very enjoyable experience. It's fair to say also that even being in close proximity with a good friend can lead to friction on occasion because that close proximity can be a very different experience to your usual relationship away from travelling. Perhaps I should select my friends better though!

_delirium 14y ago
Yes, I'm a bit confused by what people are taking away from this post. There are advantages to doing things individually, and to doing things collaboratively, and I'm interested in the relationship between those. But I don't feel like I learned much from this article about either one. Is it just the self-help-book-esque "be yourself, don't let anyone hold you back" message?
- coryl 14y ago
  Hypothesis: some people have a social 'security blanket' and are unwilling to do things alone, and thus miss out on opportunities to do interesting things. Perhaps OP was one of those people, and is now sharing/inspiring others to do the same.

ghc 14y ago

I don't know about anyone else, but I feel extremely awkward going to nice restaurants alone even if I bring something to do. I don't experience this feeling anywhere else...just restaurants. I think I'd be more likely to travel alone than to go out to a nice restaurant down the street alone.

dylanz 14y ago
Hah! I came here for this comment. My friends actually pick fun of me when I tell them I go to restaurants alone, but I thoroughly enjoy it. I'll usually bring in a notebook, a book, or something to do... and... take, my, time. I'm on my own schedule when I eat alone. I can eat as slow as I want to, I can order as fast as I want and what I want, I don't have to think of things to talk about, etc. I absolutely love people watching as well, so when I want to take a break from my food or my work, I can sit back and look around the room and check people out. I'm that guy. I love it.
- nlavezzo 14y ago
  I'm that guy too. If you really want to throw people for a loop, bring a notebook to thoughtfully write in and snap pictures of your delicious food. I had no idea until after a few times doing this in Italy that everyone was assuming I was a travel writer / food critic. I literally had people at other tables ask me who I wrote for, and when I told them no one they didn't believe me and begged me to tell. It was awesome :)
  - nicholassmith 14y ago
    In some places in England if you're spotted doing this they'll think you're a 'mystery shopper' and you get the 11 out of 10 service level.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- bradleyjg 14y ago
  For me part of the awkwardness is purely physical. Talking doesn't require extensive use of your hands and the person you are talking to are generally at eye level. Whereas reading and writing feel much more like an interruption to the meal rather than a compliment to it.

deleted 14y ago

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zx2c4 14y ago

Fuck it, I'll do it live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_HyZ5aW76c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_HyZ5aW76c

simonsarris 14y ago

I too used to be plagued by wishy-washy friends, and since waiting on finalization of plans can be a real pain, I decided to find some ways to deal with them. The first thing I did was set up a google group for my friends. There are about 20 memebers in it and we share stuff between each other by email occasionally but also make plans. The second thing I learned was never to entice people or make plans, but simply to announce plans. I'd email the group: "I'm going hiking at Franconia Notch this weekend if anyone is interested. Leaving from my house around 10AM Saturday." That's it. No waiting for replys, no waiting on people at all. If you want to come with me you'll be around at 10AM Saturday or you won't. There's no frustration if its only me going, as I intended to go alone, and if anyone wants to come along then that's a pleasant surprise. But I won't base my activity schedule around waiting for them. Surprisingly, since I started doing this, more people seem to come along. Motivation is contagious, I think, and it seems the thought of someone else already 100% committed to doing something makes it easier in the minds of others to commit themselves. So make it easy for your friends. This way they don't feel guilty or obligated one way or the other, which is a huge relief for some personality types. Later, I made a second google group for announcing house dinners, and now regularly 5-15 people show up every wednesday and we cook and eat together.

Lucadg 14y ago
yes yes yes! I realized this long time ago. Don't ask who joins. Announce you are going. They will follow. If they don't, fine. It makes it all so much easier. Many people have just followed all their lives and that's what they like to do.
- imissmyjuno 14y ago
  It has the added benefit of no one getting upset in case you have to change your plans. You were just inviting them to join you, versus you agreed to meet up together and then flaked out. Most people in my experience treat those two identical situations differently.
- dlib 14y ago
  After long, long e-mail discussions over plans with friends I also started using this approach. Just go, see who comes along. Makes organising much easier, and somehow I also care less if friends don't show up. It's my party, the more the merrier but if you're not there, your loss. Wish I knew this two years ago, would've saved me quite some time and hassle.

javert 14y ago

This article is good in concept, but has too much emotion-laden hyperbole for my taste.

phatbyte 14y ago

I don't think most people actually understood what the author meant. He said that nothing should hold you back even if you are alone to do it. He never said he doesn't like to go out with friends. He said we need to learn to do things on our own sometimes.

roflc0ptic 14y ago

There seems to be a strain of thought, especially prevelant in the programming community, that really romanticizes acting alone. I really wonder if we should romanticize it. I used to live like this - I would go to shows alone, eat out alone, go to movies alone. I'd go hiking by myself, I'd go on long bike rides by myself. At the time I didn't have the resources to go on trips by myself, but I would've done that, too. And it wasn't like I was a pariah. I've always had friends and family around. I've never needed to be single. I just felt like I required this constant solitude, and because of that, enforced a certain distance in my relationships. As I've gotten older and learned more of how to need other people, I'm kind of horrified at all of the lost opportunities. The friendships I didn't form. I would really hate for young guys [who I assume comprise much of HN's readership] to read this and say "Yeah, I should go this world alone!" Sometimes this attitude may be called for, but more often than not it will not serve you well.

vidarh 14y ago
There's a big difference between being able to enjoy going out alone when nobody you know are around, and constantly seeking it out. Losing out on great experiences because you're worried about doing it on your own is a shame. But losing out on great companionship is too. They don't need to compete. For many of the same reasons you mention, a lot of guys here should probably be ready to go out alone more. Not instead of doing stuff with friends, but when the alternative is to stay at home or do other activities that pretty much guarantee solitude. If you go out and do stuff, at least your chances of meeting new people is substantially higher.
MatthewPhillips 14y ago
I'm just the opposite. As I get older I want to hang out with friends less, as I have less time anyways so the time I do have becomes more precious. I enjoy my do-nothing Saturdays. I enjoy my coffee-and-coding Saturdays. I also enjoy the hanging out with friends Saturdays, just not every single Saturday like when I was younger.

nlavezzo 14y ago

I came to this conclusion between the sophomore and junior years of college when I had the money to take a trip to Italy but none of my friends did. I'd never been further than Mexico, but I did it. Being there alone was exhilarating - almost like the feeling of being hiking in the wilderness far enough away from people that if you broke a leg, you'd be in serious trouble. There is something wonderful about being far away from everything you know is safe and comfortable. I think there's a part of you that you can only find doing things like that.

Irregardless 14y ago

After reading the first paragraph, I thought he was about to announce a new startup that helps individual travelers find each other to plan group excursions around the world. I left disappointed :/

EGreg 14y ago
We have that startup :) But it's mostly for people to help plan things locally and spontaneously. And we keep track of people saying yes and then no. It's called Groups.

DigitalTurk 14y ago

As a rule, I prefer traveling on my own. That way I can take my time to walk wherever I want and get a better 'feel' for the city. For instance, I love to go out into the city without a map sometimes. I often even go out of my way to eat in cheap, dirty places because I want to know what the locals eat. Sometimes I even go out of my way to explore the boring and the ugly parts of town. It's difficult to find travel partners that share these interests. :) Additionally, when I'm traveling with someone else I get distracted by conversations. That means I fail to notice tons of things. Also, I have experienced that my travel companion(s) would take me to all sorts of interesting places and then afterwards I'm unable to pinpoint on a map where I've been. That kind of sucks. It's also much easier to start interesting conversations with locals or other travelers when you're not in a group. I'm never lonely. I often stay in hostels so I can usually talk to other solo travelers. And sometimes I hit couchsurfing.org and meet up with individuals or groups.

user911302966 14y ago
Yes, DigitalTurk, locals everywhere seek out the "cheap, dirty places" to eat. This attitude reeks of pretention and adolescence.

david927 14y ago

If you want to do something, and you make that contingent upon another person, you've introduced fragility to your goal. I've heard that a popular reason startups fail is co-founder disagreement, but that is just another way of saying there was a failure in leadership.

grecy 14y ago

My Friends all thought I was crazy when I invited them to drive from Alaska -> Argentina with me. The choice was clear, go alone, or don't go at all. I had a life changing two year adventure. theroadchoseme.com

cgh 14y ago
What a fantastic trip. The same thing happened to me (sort of): I wanted to go to Turkey straight out of university. Why Turkey, I'm still not sure, except I liked the look of it (I'm a climber). I had very little money but lots of time. Anyway, my friends bailed so I went alone. I stayed for four months, went everywhere, climbed mountains and rocks, learned some Turkish and did all the usual travel stuff. The main thing I learned was self-reliance. I found I was very capable at dealing with uncertainty all on my own. So I followed this trip up with solo trips to France, Thailand, etc., all climbing-related. It's enough to say that I'd be a different person if I hadn't made the decision to go to Turkey with or without companions.

enoughisenough 14y ago

Attn: HN "editors" or whatever the hell you call yourself. Hang your heads in shame for this getting to the front page. Am I missing the point of this site? I mean ffs has the word hacker been so utterly and completely co-opted and overused as to have no meaning any more?

bbx 14y ago

When living in Paris, I wanted to attend many concerts but oftentimes I ended up not going because I couldn't find anyone to come with me. Looking at the many concerts I missed because of that, I decided to automatically buy 2 tickets for each event and ask my friends afterwards, stating that I had an extra ticket. I ended up attending many concerts with one of my friends, and rarely had to sell my extra ticket. On a side note, two years ago, a group of friends invited me to join them for a 10-days trip in Turkey. They would fly directly from Paris to Istanbul. I lived in Bordeaux then and figured: why don't I go to Istanbul by train on my own? It took me 2 weeks to get there, and along the road I stopped at Milan, Florence, Venice, Ljubljana, Zagreb and Belgrade (plus Munich, Vienna, Budapest, Krakow and Berlin on my way back). I knew that noone would have agreed to come with me and I immediately felt that I had taken the right decision. It was a sudden one but I don't regret it. I met wonderful people and visited beautiful places, and I realize that depending on someone else's decision would have prevented me from doing these things.

EGreg 14y ago

We are building an app to solve this exact problem. It's called Groups and has almost a million downloads by now. This is a common problem for a lot of people. Will let you guys know when we launch the features to solve it, later this year.

njharman 14y ago

I think I'm kind of a loner. I have zero problems doing things alone. Most things (esp trips, hiking, biking) I want to do alone. I need alone time. Time away from all the hassles and pressures of "socialness". Time to be selfish. To pause when others might want to go, to go when others might want to pause. Also, early in life I got real tired of being let down / of the unreliability of people. So, instead of repeating the same activity and expecting a different outcome I quit trying or wanting to participate in planned group activities.

davycro 14y ago

I think that friends always bailing on you is a sign that you are boring. Reading this article reminded me of this quote from Anne Lamott: "There are certain people whose company you love, whose mind you love to pick, whose running commentary totally holds your attention, who makes you laugh out loud. When you have a friend like this, she can say: “Hey, I’ve got to drive up to the dump in Petaluma—wanna come along?” and you honestly can’t think of anything in the world you’d rather do. By the same token, a boring or annoying person can offer to buy you an expensive dinner, followed by tickets to a great show, and in all honesty you’d rather stay home and watch the Jello harden."

jwmoz 14y ago

For the first 10 months of 2012 I planned a trip to Thailand, taking time off contracting. I too became fed up of mates not being able to come with me so in the end thought fuck it, I'll go on my own. The day I posted my plans my mate got in touch and said he'd come with me for 3 weeks. Those 3 weeks we basically argued like a married couple, there were good times, obviously, but we are both very different people. Anyway, as soon as he left me in Cambodia, the trip turned into one of the best experiences of my life. I went where I wanted, I did what I wanted. I had crazy nights out and the trip was an adventure. I went to see my friend in Koh Phangan and stayed at his dive shop for a few weeks for free. I made friends with the locals and regularly got invited out with everyone. I had 2 of the most unbelievable experiences of my life partying in Haad Riin. I ended up with a girlfriend for 3 months whilst I was there. I met up with an old friend in Malaysia and stayed with her for free in a 5 star hotel for a week - she was on business and got a twin room for me. I met a girl in Bangkok who ended up driving me around the city in her Range Rover and taking me out to clubs. One day I decided to rent a motocross bike and rode it 35km up to the top of Bokor mountain in Cambodia - an amazing experience, more so on the way back down. All of these things happened when I was on my own. Once I left my friend, I could do exactly what I wanted. There were times when it was hard, e.g. going to clubs on your own, or places where everybody is in a group, but in the end it paid off. Now I'm the guy who just does what he wants. This year I'll go away again to maybe South Korea or the Philippines; I haven't even considered asking someone to go with me. So yeh, don't be that guy stressing about not having anyone to go places with, fuck it, go on your own.

rmc 14y ago
Traveling with someone can be difficult. Just because you're friends with someone doesn't mean you'll both enjoy living on top of each other for a while.

pfortuny 14y ago

Well, great idea: enjoying good things alone. I do it a lot of times). There is no special need for friends in order to enjoy a good meal, a good concert or a good film or a good sightseeing. There is a time to enjoy alone and a time to gather together. Glad you have discovered this. Edit: and there is no need to 'fuck it', one should do these things by himself from time to time. There is no obligation to enjoy with others.

stevewilhelm 14y ago

As a solo runner who trained for and completed the Dipsea and US Half marathon last year, I say go it alone but let someone know where you are going and when you plan on getting back. And carry a rock solid cell phone. I have a Verizon pay as you go basic phone http://s831.us/Pn4ZDD http://s831.us/Pn4ZDD. It's always charged and can pick up cell coverage where my smartphone can't.

misiti3780 14y ago

I just booked a trip to Vietnam/Cambodia alone with the same thought in mind - no one was willing to commit, and I still wanted to go

baby 14y ago

If you want people to follow you, you must have the balls to lead alone first.

Zarathust 14y ago

I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul

bluekite2000 14y ago

This boils down to your personality, not on external factors like who you are with, where you go or what you do. Are you an extrovert, introvert or ambivert? Figure out who you are then everything will make sense

malenm 14y ago
Thanks for this - I'm very much an ambivert but never heard the term until today.
- bluekite2000 14y ago
  Have you read a book called To sell is human? The author goes in depth on this.

baby 14y ago

Nicholas Christakis: The hidden influence of social networks [1] : Should we do things alone, so as not to be contaminated by our friends/entourage. Or Should we get surrounded by the most people. Also, doing things alone FIRST allows you to get surrounded by those interesting people that will follow wherever you will go and whatever you will do [1] http://www.ted.com/talks/nicholas_christakis_the_hidden_influence_of_social_networks.html http://www.ted.com/talks/nicholas_christakis_the_hidden_infl...

mercuryrising 14y ago

So my goal is to be a "Millionaire by May". I have 0 dollars right now (living in my parent's basement), and am close to an MVP. I'm going to start a company by myself, do everything myself, rake in the profits by myself. It'll be hard as hell, but by doing it myself I get to learn all the facets, and don't have to communicate my half assed desires (make it more blue-green!). I have a fluorescent dollar sign on my desk, whenever the going gets rough (or I don't want to do it anymore), the dollar sign goes on. Reminds me of my goal. I've been pumping myself up recently with two things - excuses are just fear, and shoot for simplicity, not efficiency (if it's simple, it's likely pretty damn efficient). Unless there is a ridiculous technical problem, there is generally a way around a problem with a little bit of creativity and elbow grease. Excuses are just lack of desire to find those routes.

davidwparker 14y ago

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned traveling with your significant other / spouse / girlfriend / wife / boyfriend / husband. I've made quite a few trips and it's generally not hard to plan something together with my wife, so long as we do it early enough so she can get off work. She loves eating out, so it's never hard to ask her to eat out with me. In general, she'll do most things with me, so long as they're not hardcore physical activities (mountain climbing, long distance runs, etc)- but even those she'll go watch if she's able.

rwhitman 14y ago

This happened to me the exact same way. Couldn't get anyone on board so I bought a plane ticket to Hong Kong by myself randomly one night and it was one of the best trips I've ever taken. I've done a few other solo trips since. I think the thing I like the most is the sense of ultimate freedom - no arguments or drama, disasters out of your control etc. Everything you do is because you chose to do it. If you make a mistake and screw something up, nobody is going to complain. After being in a relationship for 7 years I really long to get those moments back...

mberning 14y ago

This breaks down when it comes time to make reservations and other arrangements where money becomes involved. I've found that asking for a deposit on things like lodging and tickets really weeds out who is serious and who is not.

mixmastamyk 14y ago

I remember coming to grips with this myself. Turns out most people have different priorities than I, such as buying a new car rather than say... diving in Australia for a few months? A few things I've learned: The true test comes when it is time to pay. If you can move that part up, then you will save a lot of time. Don't sweat it if the couch potatoes at home don't make it. You'll make friends at the destination, people who actually do things rather than talk about them. Also, agree with simonsarris' comment that announcing plans takes the uncertainty out of the exchange.

antoaravinth 14y ago

I felt that I wrote this article. This is my exact though process too.

chris_wot 14y ago

Footloose and fancyfree- try that with kids :-)