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The complexity required to write and read this article is the reason Java failed as a desktop framework.

klibertp 14y ago
I'm very distant from Java-land right now and equally distant from desktop development so I know next to nothing about the matter, but one of my co-workers is using PyCharm and is praising it every single day (as a former vim user, at that). So I can't help but wonder - how did Java fail, in your opinion, and what other framework "won", if any?
- btipling 14y ago
  Note the comment you are replying to qualified it to 'desktop' framework. Obviously Java is very popular on mobile, servers and in enterprise. On the desktop, beyond Minecraft, Eclipse, Azure and OpenOffice there aren't a lot of other popular desktop Java apps. Java on the desktop failed because of .Net, because the UI widgets on Java looks horrible and nothing like the OS, and because Sun wasn't a consumer focused company and neither is Oracle.
  - calinet6 14y ago
    Exactly what I meant, yes. There are a lot of places Java has succeeded, but being a framework to write and run desktop applications for the mass-market end-user consumer (a task which it was once positioned to excel at) was not one of them. And all it took was a little user-focus and design work. Never happened. Very shortsighted IMHO, but I also believe it was not possible at Sun or Oracle. Just not in their nature.
- virmundi 14y ago
  I agree somewhat with btip. The UI features of Java were not only ugly, but, until 6.0, slow. This is one of the reasons Eclipse uses SWT rather than native Swing. 6 brought with it a much faster UI experience. Unfortunately that happened after the transition of apps from the desktop to the web. So you had slow applet downloads vs Flash on the client. You also had compatibility issues that were more involved than Flash. Finally, other cross platform frame works like Qt came along. Now you'd get closer native appearance with languages other than Java. As a result of the confluence of events and changes Java became relegated to server or phone side.
  - Shorel 14y ago
    > Finally, other cross platform frame works like Qt came along. Not true. wxWidgets predates Java, it is cross platform and it does provide a real native appearance. Not emulation, true native widgets.

I'm very distant from Java-land right now and equally distant from desktop development so I know next to nothing about the matter, but one of my co-workers is using PyCharm and is praising it every single day (as a former vim user, at that). So I can't help but wonder - how did Java fail, in your opinion, and what other framework "won", if any?

btipling 14y ago
Note the comment you are replying to qualified it to 'desktop' framework. Obviously Java is very popular on mobile, servers and in enterprise. On the desktop, beyond Minecraft, Eclipse, Azure and OpenOffice there aren't a lot of other popular desktop Java apps. Java on the desktop failed because of .Net, because the UI widgets on Java looks horrible and nothing like the OS, and because Sun wasn't a consumer focused company and neither is Oracle.
- calinet6 14y ago
  Exactly what I meant, yes. There are a lot of places Java has succeeded, but being a framework to write and run desktop applications for the mass-market end-user consumer (a task which it was once positioned to excel at) was not one of them. And all it took was a little user-focus and design work. Never happened. Very shortsighted IMHO, but I also believe it was not possible at Sun or Oracle. Just not in their nature.
virmundi 14y ago
I agree somewhat with btip. The UI features of Java were not only ugly, but, until 6.0, slow. This is one of the reasons Eclipse uses SWT rather than native Swing. 6 brought with it a much faster UI experience. Unfortunately that happened after the transition of apps from the desktop to the web. So you had slow applet downloads vs Flash on the client. You also had compatibility issues that were more involved than Flash. Finally, other cross platform frame works like Qt came along. Now you'd get closer native appearance with languages other than Java. As a result of the confluence of events and changes Java became relegated to server or phone side.
- Shorel 14y ago
  > Finally, other cross platform frame works like Qt came along. Not true. wxWidgets predates Java, it is cross platform and it does provide a real native appearance. Not emulation, true native widgets.