7 ms·

How is this going to make any difference? Pirated content is already available in US and other countries via thepiratebay and other torrents sites. Pirating co

by Jagat 14y ago

How is this going to make any difference? Pirated content is already available in US and other countries via thepiratebay and other torrents sites. Pirating copyrighted content is already considered illegal in the US, and is being actively monitored by media companies. If this Antiguan website indeed becomes accessible to Americans, or say other country, how will downloading from this site differ from downloading via torrents. Since torrent usage is already being monitored in US, there's a high likelihood that American ISPs would monitor the usage of this site as well. Edit: Downloading copyrighted content -> Pirating copyrighted content.

ghshephard 14y ago
"Downloading copyrighted content is already considered illegal in US" Not to my knowledge - I'd be happy to be corrected on this though. My understanding is that it's only the unauthorized distribution that's illegal, not the downloading. In this situation, Antigua has a WTO authorization. The reason why torrents are illegal, is that most clients turn you into a distribution node as well as downloading node.
- tedunangst 14y ago
  Yes. If you accidentally say "stealing" the word police will be all over you, but for some reason the misconception that downloading and uploading are equivalent goes uncorrected.
  - ghshephard 14y ago
    And - it's a very important distinction. How do I know that the movies, songs, tv that I download from itunes.com, amazon.com, mp3.com, musicmp3.ru, mp3shake.com, etc, etc.. are authorized to sell them to me?
    - ChuckMcM 14y ago
      Well in the case of iTunes and Amazon they have written agreements with the copyright holders which give them permission to sell you copies as long as they pay the copyright holder a specific amount of money. The way you know this is the case is that copyright holders sue people without such agreements in the court system. So when a record label sues Amazon for some service that offers copies of music, you can infer that the music label does not believe that there is an agreement in place which gives Amazon that right.
      - nitrogen 14y ago
        It's unreasonable to expect the average person to follow the goings on of the US courts.
        tedunangst 14y ago
        The good news is you don't have to. You're not, afaik, liable for buying an MP3 from Amazon which later turns out to be unauthorized. The closest I believe anyone has ever come is when an unauthorized copy of 1984 showed up, Amazon zapped it from people's Kindles (and gave refunds, and promised to not do that again). None of those people were in any danger of being sued.
        nitrogen 14y ago
        But, how is an average person supposed to tell the difference between iTunes, Amazon, and a "download this song for free" site they found on Google, that just so happens to use BitTorrent for distributing those files?
        tedunangst 14y ago
        BitTorrent links don't work without installing a BitTorrent client? I'm not entirely unsympathetic, but ignorance of the law has never been an effective defense (for any law), and neither has the "but I was tricked" defense. This is not peculiar to copyright law or computer law. There have been some cases where people did succeed with "I had so much malware, I didn't know what my computer was doing", but that's something you'll have to argue in court.
shmerl 14y ago
I think the difference here is that Antigua is going to sell the pirated material, while usually it's distributed without fees. It's hard to say how successful such effort would be for Antigua (competing with the same free pirated content), but some can support it just to make the point.
- belorn 14y ago
  Thrown in some fast streaming with download options. Include a ad supported version. Offer it worldwide. I can see that work quite fine in competing with existing services out there.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
"Pirating" is the act of acquiring a copy of a copyrighted work in a way that is contrary to existing law. "Downloading" Copyrighted works can be done completely legally, the simplest example being to buy a copy of a movie on itunes and transferring it to your phone or tablet. This is a 'third' way of legally downloading content which is sort of like buying property with a tax lien on it, the government (in this case the WTO) has stepped in, set aside the rights of the property owner, and is sanctioning an action to make whole the person or entity who is wronged. So the WTO sets aside the rights of US Copyright holders and allows Antiqua to sell those works, allowing it to recover damages that the US Government has failed to pay. The government could "pay" the $21M fine and the WTO would rescind this, but if they do that then they show that they are wrong in denying access to the US market for Antiqua gambling interests. If they don't pay it, they are bound by membership in the WTO to abide by its decisions. It is a delicious paradox.
- ghshephard 14y ago
  ""Pirating" is the act of acquiring a copy of a copyrighted work in a way that is contrary to existing law." Okay - I'll bite. What does that mean? How does one acquire a copy of a copyrighted work in a way that is contrary to existing law? Or, alternatively, How does one acquire a copy of a copyrighted work in a way that is compliant with existing law? As a "Pro-IP Law" enthusiast, I'm genuinely interested - my layperson's understanding of the law is that it deals with distribution, not downloading.
  - ChuckMcM 14y ago
    Its pretty simple actually, the owner of the copy 'right' expressly authorizes the copy being given to you. That is in accordance with the law. So any number of examples, you buy a book at the book store, you buy a DVD, you watch a movie at the theater, all of these actions result in a 'copy' of the work coming into your possession that is sanctioned by the owner of the right. Any illegal copy is one in which the owner hasn't sanctioned transferring a copy to you. Copyright law carves out specific exemptions for lending libraries and the First Sale doctrine, part of the unified commercial code (UCC) gives you the right to transfer your copy to a third party as long as no new copies are created (so you no longer have a copy). Note I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
krichman 14y ago
Pirating hasn't been tested in the courts, really, it's the distributing that will get you a lawsuit. This is because what would that law look like? If someone sent you an email with a newspaper article inside you'd be violating it.

by Jagat 14y ago

ghshephard 14y ago

"Downloading copyrighted content is already considered illegal in US" Not to my knowledge - I'd be happy to be corrected on this though. My understanding is that it's only the unauthorized distribution that's illegal, not the downloading. In this situation, Antigua has a WTO authorization. The reason why torrents are illegal, is that most clients turn you into a distribution node as well as downloading node.

tedunangst 14y ago
Yes. If you accidentally say "stealing" the word police will be all over you, but for some reason the misconception that downloading and uploading are equivalent goes uncorrected.
- ghshephard 14y ago
  And - it's a very important distinction. How do I know that the movies, songs, tv that I download from itunes.com, amazon.com, mp3.com, musicmp3.ru, mp3shake.com, etc, etc.. are authorized to sell them to me?
  - ChuckMcM 14y ago
    Well in the case of iTunes and Amazon they have written agreements with the copyright holders which give them permission to sell you copies as long as they pay the copyright holder a specific amount of money. The way you know this is the case is that copyright holders sue people without such agreements in the court system. So when a record label sues Amazon for some service that offers copies of music, you can infer that the music label does not believe that there is an agreement in place which gives Amazon that right.
    - nitrogen 14y ago
      It's unreasonable to expect the average person to follow the goings on of the US courts.
      - tedunangst 14y ago
        The good news is you don't have to. You're not, afaik, liable for buying an MP3 from Amazon which later turns out to be unauthorized. The closest I believe anyone has ever come is when an unauthorized copy of 1984 showed up, Amazon zapped it from people's Kindles (and gave refunds, and promised to not do that again). None of those people were in any danger of being sued.
        nitrogen 14y ago
        But, how is an average person supposed to tell the difference between iTunes, Amazon, and a "download this song for free" site they found on Google, that just so happens to use BitTorrent for distributing those files?
        tedunangst 14y ago
        BitTorrent links don't work without installing a BitTorrent client? I'm not entirely unsympathetic, but ignorance of the law has never been an effective defense (for any law), and neither has the "but I was tricked" defense. This is not peculiar to copyright law or computer law. There have been some cases where people did succeed with "I had so much malware, I didn't know what my computer was doing", but that's something you'll have to argue in court.

shmerl 14y ago

I think the difference here is that Antigua is going to sell the pirated material, while usually it's distributed without fees. It's hard to say how successful such effort would be for Antigua (competing with the same free pirated content), but some can support it just to make the point.

belorn 14y ago
Thrown in some fast streaming with download options. Include a ad supported version. Offer it worldwide. I can see that work quite fine in competing with existing services out there.

ChuckMcM 14y ago

"Pirating" is the act of acquiring a copy of a copyrighted work in a way that is contrary to existing law. "Downloading" Copyrighted works can be done completely legally, the simplest example being to buy a copy of a movie on itunes and transferring it to your phone or tablet. This is a 'third' way of legally downloading content which is sort of like buying property with a tax lien on it, the government (in this case the WTO) has stepped in, set aside the rights of the property owner, and is sanctioning an action to make whole the person or entity who is wronged. So the WTO sets aside the rights of US Copyright holders and allows Antiqua to sell those works, allowing it to recover damages that the US Government has failed to pay. The government could "pay" the $21M fine and the WTO would rescind this, but if they do that then they show that they are wrong in denying access to the US market for Antiqua gambling interests. If they don't pay it, they are bound by membership in the WTO to abide by its decisions. It is a delicious paradox.

ghshephard 14y ago
""Pirating" is the act of acquiring a copy of a copyrighted work in a way that is contrary to existing law." Okay - I'll bite. What does that mean? How does one acquire a copy of a copyrighted work in a way that is contrary to existing law? Or, alternatively, How does one acquire a copy of a copyrighted work in a way that is compliant with existing law? As a "Pro-IP Law" enthusiast, I'm genuinely interested - my layperson's understanding of the law is that it deals with distribution, not downloading.
- ChuckMcM 14y ago
  Its pretty simple actually, the owner of the copy 'right' expressly authorizes the copy being given to you. That is in accordance with the law. So any number of examples, you buy a book at the book store, you buy a DVD, you watch a movie at the theater, all of these actions result in a 'copy' of the work coming into your possession that is sanctioned by the owner of the right. Any illegal copy is one in which the owner hasn't sanctioned transferring a copy to you. Copyright law carves out specific exemptions for lending libraries and the First Sale doctrine, part of the unified commercial code (UCC) gives you the right to transfer your copy to a third party as long as no new copies are created (so you no longer have a copy). Note I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.

krichman 14y ago

Pirating hasn't been tested in the courts, really, it's the distributing that will get you a lawsuit. This is because what would that law look like? If someone sent you an email with a newspaper article inside you'd be violating it.