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TRUE FANS! [http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fans.php http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fan...] This song in rea

TRUE FANS! [http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fans.php http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fan...] This song in really interesting in two ways. It was most likely made for close to nothing with a laptop, Protools/Logic and a mic. And secondly and more important the song is all about going thrift shopping and being thrifty! I'm gonna pop some tags Only got twenty dollars in my pocket I - I - I'm hunting, looking for a come-up This is f[*]cking awesome He can record a song for close to $0, he can connect with his 1,000+ true fans directly for $0 and when someone torrents his songs he doesn't care because he is so thrifty that an extra $20 when 1 out of 10,000 who listen to his song go to his show he is syked.

ScottWhigham 14y ago
He can record a song for close to $0 That's a lot of speculating for us to agree with you on. A laptop capable of that costs $2000, the software is $200 (Logic) - $600 (Pro Tools). The monitors, room, headphones, plugins, etc to create the sound is another $2,000+ minimum. The sound on that record is not what someone does is a bedroom w/ a laptop and headphones - trust me. I'm sitting here listening on $3000 monitors in a well treated recording studio and the sound is killer. You do not get crisp, clear sound like that if you are mixing on headphones or crappy "speakers" in an untreated room.
- ynniv 14y ago
  Headphones go a long way, but according the to artist it was recorded and mixed in a 500 sqft studio they built. Looks like acoustic foam on the walls, a decent mic, monitors, protools, used rack equipment, etc. Probably close to $5k, but nothing compared to a big label studio. [ http://blog.kexp.org/2012/07/19/macklemore-ryan-lewis-release-the-heist-online-trailer/ http://blog.kexp.org/2012/07/19/macklemore-ryan-lewis-releas... ]
  - ScottWhigham 14y ago
    Nice - I dig that. But sorry - you're way off on that estimate of $5000. I see some stellar gear there - $2500 API channel strip, $3200 Tube Tech compressor, $3500 Neumann U87 mic, $2000 laptop, $600 monitor, $4000 Neve Portico EQs (I think), (2) Empirical Labs Distressors ($2000 ea). That's the gear you see and that I recognize. There's probably another $500 in cabling, $200 in stands, and I'd assume there's a desktop computer in there too ($2500 worth, I bet). And then there's the plugins you don't see - a reverb plugin, for sure, along with more EQs and compression. Probably a mastering plugin too. Call it $1500 worth of plugins. And the monitors - those look like Adam A7xs which are $1500/pr. Oh and $200 worth of headphones. And the instruments - no way that they have less than $1000 invested there. And the acoustic treatment - not less than $300 but probably not more than $1000. And the other things in there cost money too - studio desks are special b/c they can't vibrate when loud noise/bass is present (so you aren't using a $100 craigslist desk w/o some serious re-tooling). Studio racks (for the rack gear), instrument stands, etc. I lost count of the total but it's probably safe to say that the gear/room pictured in that video is a multiple of $5000.
    - eclipxe 14y ago
      This guy right here...he knows his stuff.
      - peapicker 14y ago
        But... but... they bought it all at the Thrift Shop! (I know, I know....)
    - startupfounder 14y ago
      I stand corrected. That being said, the point I was trying to make is that even if they spent $10k or $25k on studio equipment buying all new gear they still sold 254,000 albums to date.
    - edwardunknown 14y ago
      They probably could have made this with an Apogee Mic and nobody would have known the difference. But now he can ebay all that hardware with a signature of authenticity or something and probably make 200% of their money back. I don't know why more bands don't do that, resell value on good mics is pretty good. Use Kickstarter to buy some mics and preamps and sell them when you're done!
- Cushman 14y ago
  What do you make of the idea that you should mix to sound good the way your audience will listen to it?
  - ScottWhigham 14y ago
    That's a silly notion. You mix to sound good on all devices, not just one (headphones). A high quality and experienced mix engineer will spend sometimes years developing his/her ears and learning the room acoustics and learning their monitors' responses. This allows them to use 1-3 pairs of monitors in their studio that they know will "translate" (which means "that will sound good on any device"). Room acoustics and monitoring are a science, not an art, so this is easy stuff that anyone can do regardless of budget. Guys on a budget, however, will get one pair of monitors/headphones, do their mix, and go listen to that mix in lots of environments - cars, home stereos, beat boxes, etc. They'll hear how it sounds outside of the studio then they'll come back and make adjustments. This is how you "learn your monitors" - you are trying to learn about "500hz sounds too low in the studio but, if I bump up 500hz in the EQ, it sounds fine in the studio but then it gets muddy anywhere else". This is just how you do it.
    - chipsy 14y ago
      I would like to point out that there is a lower limit to budget mixing, of course - when the equipment fails to translate any noticeable change, even if you're sweeping the parameter a great deal and listening carefully. At that point you have a problem.
- ryen 14y ago
  Not to mention the amount of time it takes to write, produce, and mix.
- jakebellacera 14y ago
  Seattle has a very vibrant music community. I'm sure that if you were an emerging artist that had something good up your sleeve you could convince studios to record you and then mix it yourself on a buddy's computer. Networking helps.

ScottWhigham 14y ago

He can record a song for close to $0 That's a lot of speculating for us to agree with you on. A laptop capable of that costs $2000, the software is $200 (Logic) - $600 (Pro Tools). The monitors, room, headphones, plugins, etc to create the sound is another $2,000+ minimum. The sound on that record is not what someone does is a bedroom w/ a laptop and headphones - trust me. I'm sitting here listening on $3000 monitors in a well treated recording studio and the sound is killer. You do not get crisp, clear sound like that if you are mixing on headphones or crappy "speakers" in an untreated room.

ynniv 14y ago
Headphones go a long way, but according the to artist it was recorded and mixed in a 500 sqft studio they built. Looks like acoustic foam on the walls, a decent mic, monitors, protools, used rack equipment, etc. Probably close to $5k, but nothing compared to a big label studio. [ http://blog.kexp.org/2012/07/19/macklemore-ryan-lewis-release-the-heist-online-trailer/ http://blog.kexp.org/2012/07/19/macklemore-ryan-lewis-releas... ]
- ScottWhigham 14y ago
  Nice - I dig that. But sorry - you're way off on that estimate of $5000. I see some stellar gear there - $2500 API channel strip, $3200 Tube Tech compressor, $3500 Neumann U87 mic, $2000 laptop, $600 monitor, $4000 Neve Portico EQs (I think), (2) Empirical Labs Distressors ($2000 ea). That's the gear you see and that I recognize. There's probably another $500 in cabling, $200 in stands, and I'd assume there's a desktop computer in there too ($2500 worth, I bet). And then there's the plugins you don't see - a reverb plugin, for sure, along with more EQs and compression. Probably a mastering plugin too. Call it $1500 worth of plugins. And the monitors - those look like Adam A7xs which are $1500/pr. Oh and $200 worth of headphones. And the instruments - no way that they have less than $1000 invested there. And the acoustic treatment - not less than $300 but probably not more than $1000. And the other things in there cost money too - studio desks are special b/c they can't vibrate when loud noise/bass is present (so you aren't using a $100 craigslist desk w/o some serious re-tooling). Studio racks (for the rack gear), instrument stands, etc. I lost count of the total but it's probably safe to say that the gear/room pictured in that video is a multiple of $5000.
  - eclipxe 14y ago
    This guy right here...he knows his stuff.
    - peapicker 14y ago
      But... but... they bought it all at the Thrift Shop! (I know, I know....)
  - startupfounder 14y ago
    I stand corrected. That being said, the point I was trying to make is that even if they spent $10k or $25k on studio equipment buying all new gear they still sold 254,000 albums to date.
  - edwardunknown 14y ago
    They probably could have made this with an Apogee Mic and nobody would have known the difference. But now he can ebay all that hardware with a signature of authenticity or something and probably make 200% of their money back. I don't know why more bands don't do that, resell value on good mics is pretty good. Use Kickstarter to buy some mics and preamps and sell them when you're done!
Cushman 14y ago
What do you make of the idea that you should mix to sound good the way your audience will listen to it?
- ScottWhigham 14y ago
  That's a silly notion. You mix to sound good on all devices, not just one (headphones). A high quality and experienced mix engineer will spend sometimes years developing his/her ears and learning the room acoustics and learning their monitors' responses. This allows them to use 1-3 pairs of monitors in their studio that they know will "translate" (which means "that will sound good on any device"). Room acoustics and monitoring are a science, not an art, so this is easy stuff that anyone can do regardless of budget. Guys on a budget, however, will get one pair of monitors/headphones, do their mix, and go listen to that mix in lots of environments - cars, home stereos, beat boxes, etc. They'll hear how it sounds outside of the studio then they'll come back and make adjustments. This is how you "learn your monitors" - you are trying to learn about "500hz sounds too low in the studio but, if I bump up 500hz in the EQ, it sounds fine in the studio but then it gets muddy anywhere else". This is just how you do it.
  - chipsy 14y ago
    I would like to point out that there is a lower limit to budget mixing, of course - when the equipment fails to translate any noticeable change, even if you're sweeping the parameter a great deal and listening carefully. At that point you have a problem.
ryen 14y ago
Not to mention the amount of time it takes to write, produce, and mix.
jakebellacera 14y ago
Seattle has a very vibrant music community. I'm sure that if you were an emerging artist that had something good up your sleeve you could convince studios to record you and then mix it yourself on a buddy's computer. Networking helps.