5 ms·

Your sentiments on overreacting aside, why does it matter what gender or skin colour the speakers have? If they are qualified and best of class then they should

Your sentiments on overreacting aside, why does it matter what gender or skin colour the speakers have? If they are qualified and best of class then they should be the ones speaking, no? Should we also invite granite rocks to presentations so that they are equally represented?

F_J_H 14y ago
"The map is not the territory"
unalone 14y ago
Your assumption is that there is a "best of class" which can be easily identified and sorted from the rest. Given that most conferences aren't going to consist only of the absolute paragons of an industry, we can conclude that in planning conferences we're selecting possible speakers from a number of very qualified participants. In industries where there is a grotesque gender imbalance, one way you start to fix that imbalance is by acknowledging it and making efforts to pick women speakers when they're available – that both gives the speakers an opportunity that is being frequently denied them, and it indicates to other women that there is opportunity in this field, that they won't be passed over again and again by men for no merit other than their gender. If we assume that no woman is as good as a man in this field, then your argument makes sense – but that's a silly argument, methinks.
raganwald 14y ago
It may not matter at all. Why should there be "Tall, Canadian, Caramel Privilege?"
- jrogers65 14y ago
  I don't really understand where you're going with this. If the best speakers happen to be Asian females then what is the problem, exactly? There is not one caucasian person in the top 10 fastest 100m sprinters (http://www.toptens.com/sports-track-sprinters/ http://www.toptens.com/sports-track-sprinters/). Do you believe that this is somehow problematic? Genes and gene expression affect neurotransmitter levels and neurotrophic factors which, in turn, affect cognitive performance - just as Jamaicans and Africans are on average better at sprinting than English and French natives. Particular genetic groupings are going to fare better at task X, not too badly at task Y and terribly at task Z. This is not privilege, it is reality. http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20110809/genes-play-big-role-in-intelligence http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20110809/genes-play-big-...
  - raganwald 14y ago
    I just said that the colour of a speaker's skin or gender may not matter. I agree with you that it ought not to matter. As to my post, what I would say is that you and I are having a productive conversation in part neither of us is labelling the other as overreacting. Instead, we're trading viewpoints and questions.
  - jacalata 14y ago
    Are you suggesting that the genetic grouping of white males is scientifically accepted as being a better ruby conference speaker than non-white or non-male people?
    - jrogers65 14y ago
      I believe that we're talking about Asian women being at the top of whatever field the conference referenced in the blog post was about.
      - jacalata 14y ago
        right, I was thinking of the actual incidents that (I assume) prompted this blog post. So you can re-state my question as, "are you arguing that it is likely that Asian women are genetically superior to non-Asian or male people in that field?".
        jrogers65 14y ago
        Well yeah, that's what I'm arguing. Asian women are going to, on average, do better in field X than individuals from other genetic groupings - just as Jamaican men excel at sprinting. Another example: > Different studies have found different results, but most have found above-average verbal and mathematical intelligence in Ashkenazi Jews, along with below-average spatial intelligence. Some studies have found IQ scores amongst Ashkenazi Jews to be a fifth to one full standard deviation above average in mathematical and verbal tests. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence#Does_a_group_difference_in_intelligence_exist.3F http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence#D...

F_J_H 14y ago

"The map is not the territory"

unalone 14y ago

Your assumption is that there is a "best of class" which can be easily identified and sorted from the rest. Given that most conferences aren't going to consist only of the absolute paragons of an industry, we can conclude that in planning conferences we're selecting possible speakers from a number of very qualified participants. In industries where there is a grotesque gender imbalance, one way you start to fix that imbalance is by acknowledging it and making efforts to pick women speakers when they're available – that both gives the speakers an opportunity that is being frequently denied them, and it indicates to other women that there is opportunity in this field, that they won't be passed over again and again by men for no merit other than their gender. If we assume that no woman is as good as a man in this field, then your argument makes sense – but that's a silly argument, methinks.

raganwald 14y ago

It may not matter at all. Why should there be "Tall, Canadian, Caramel Privilege?"

jrogers65 14y ago
I don't really understand where you're going with this. If the best speakers happen to be Asian females then what is the problem, exactly? There is not one caucasian person in the top 10 fastest 100m sprinters (http://www.toptens.com/sports-track-sprinters/ http://www.toptens.com/sports-track-sprinters/). Do you believe that this is somehow problematic? Genes and gene expression affect neurotransmitter levels and neurotrophic factors which, in turn, affect cognitive performance - just as Jamaicans and Africans are on average better at sprinting than English and French natives. Particular genetic groupings are going to fare better at task X, not too badly at task Y and terribly at task Z. This is not privilege, it is reality. http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20110809/genes-play-big-role-in-intelligence http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20110809/genes-play-big-...
- raganwald 14y ago
  I just said that the colour of a speaker's skin or gender may not matter. I agree with you that it ought not to matter. As to my post, what I would say is that you and I are having a productive conversation in part neither of us is labelling the other as overreacting. Instead, we're trading viewpoints and questions.
- jacalata 14y ago
  Are you suggesting that the genetic grouping of white males is scientifically accepted as being a better ruby conference speaker than non-white or non-male people?
  - jrogers65 14y ago
    I believe that we're talking about Asian women being at the top of whatever field the conference referenced in the blog post was about.
    - jacalata 14y ago
      right, I was thinking of the actual incidents that (I assume) prompted this blog post. So you can re-state my question as, "are you arguing that it is likely that Asian women are genetically superior to non-Asian or male people in that field?".
      - jrogers65 14y ago
        Well yeah, that's what I'm arguing. Asian women are going to, on average, do better in field X than individuals from other genetic groupings - just as Jamaican men excel at sprinting. Another example: > Different studies have found different results, but most have found above-average verbal and mathematical intelligence in Ashkenazi Jews, along with below-average spatial intelligence. Some studies have found IQ scores amongst Ashkenazi Jews to be a fifth to one full standard deviation above average in mathematical and verbal tests. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence#Does_a_group_difference_in_intelligence_exist.3F http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence#D...