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We'll all be dead from toxic smog before Google's driverless cars get anywhere. I think the idea is extremely shortsighted. It's a technological feat but not a

We'll all be dead from toxic smog before Google's driverless cars get anywhere. I think the idea is extremely shortsighted. It's a technological feat but not a creative one. It just produces more cars, more fuel-burning and more roads. It's more cars and that will produce more pollution. Ultimately, it solves nothing. You want to stop deadly car crashes? Help save wildlife from excessive roads and urban sprawl? Stop driving. Live and work locally. But that would take real change.

jaggederest 14y ago
> We will need more roads, more cars and that will produce more pollution. Nope. Less. Cars-per-person will nosedive from almost 1:1 in the US right now to maybe 1:5 - that means the embodied energy wasted on cars will go down. Per-mile energy costs will go down too, if cars are driven efficiently. It also enables the large-scale conversion of the US car fleet to electric propulsion. Cars can recharge themselves and aren't range limited because you can swap cars rather than waiting. It's huge. It's as big as the invention of the car was. All the human hours wasted on moving things from A to B will gradually go away.
- visarga 14y ago
  Imagine the delivery systems - FedEx, DHL, etc. Fresh food every day delivered from the farm? Not a problem any more. Also, regarding pollution - traveling salesman algorithm optimizations would reduce the distance travelled and CO2 emitted for the same outcome.
- thoughtcriminal 14y ago
  That's a lot of ifs, and making a lot of assumptions. We don't have this kind of time. For God sakes, please snap out of your delusion.
  - r0s 14y ago
    You're deluded if you think car culture in the US can change significantly anytime soon. Call me a cynic, and I'll call you a fool. If you want to throw around platitudes, why not address the real problem: uncontrolled population. Or does that make you uncomfortable?
    - thoughtcriminal 14y ago
      No Mr.Pot, overpopulation isn't the problem. Greed and misallocation of land and resources is the problem. Too many cars is a problem. And you calling the kettle black is a problem. I don't drive, you do, therefore you are uncomfortable with the reality that you are destroying the environment and the air and shifting the responsibility elsewhere.
      - r0s 14y ago
        No, allocation of resources depends entirely on scarcity, because no working system of fair distribution will ever happen in the real world. Unless you rely on charity to take care of everyone, which I guess is your solution. More likely you haven't thought about it. Cars don't have to be internal-combustion. You have no moral authority, just shrill accusations. Your lack of driving is a lame dodge for your destructive, hypocritical, blind consumerism; which is doing far more damage than a car ever could. Feel free to defend your lifestyle here and pretend you don't shit all over the third world as much as the average American. You're fooling yourself though. Either you work for a company that does a ton of environmental damage, or your parents do, and they pay your bills (more likely). You pay taxes to a government with a massive military machine that destroys the environment and subsidizes the worst companies. But maybe your lack of car makes you special.
        jaggederest 14y ago
        The correct term for his arguments is 'hair shirt green'.
        thoughtcriminal 14y ago
        You don't know what you're talking about. I don't live in the US.
suhastech 14y ago
Yes, I agree that the world is moving more toward virtual commuting. Somehow, I feel there is still no alterative to real world communication. Until that is fixed, this is still amazing. Self driving cars will have a metro train like experience with very good reach thanks to the existing infrastructure (roads).
- visarga 14y ago
  I feel Skype + VNC form a good enough solution for many situations. I am working with my brother on a project like this and it is just as good as physically being at the same desk. The mouse and desktop apps seem almost as responsive as on a local computer. The sound is just as good as in person.
  - suhastech 14y ago
    I agree. This situation works great for computer related work. You probably can't build a robot or waltz with your partner on Skype.
justincormack 14y ago
You can solve all these same problems with bicycles, if your cities are more dense.
gfodor 14y ago
You have got to be kidding me, spoken like a true luddite. You realize if autonomous cars were suddenly a real thing, the entire world economy would shift and become wildly more efficient, right? One of the pillars of our transportation infrastructure is that vehicles have an operator. This dictates their form, this dictates the manner in which we build roads, bridges, etc. This dictates the manner in which we design supply chains, the way we transport energy, the way we build cities and towns. It's hard to imagine anyone using the word "short sighted" to describe the concept of autonomous cars. It's one of the most ambitious technology projects going on today and it stands to be as revolutionary as the original automobile.
- thoughtcriminal 14y ago
  You don't seem to understand the resources required to build a car, and the punishing toll it exacts on the planet. And how roads disrupt migratory paths of animals. Technology isn't the answer to problems of air quality and the preservation of wildlife. Making significant changes to our lifestyle is, but we need to snap out of this delusional wishful thinking and make changes based on reality.
  - kaolinite 14y ago
    No, technology is potentially an answer to air quality problems and preservation of wildlife - it's just not the answer you want, for some reason.
  - greggman 14y ago
    Actually technology is the only realistic solution. You can keep trying to get 7 billion people to behave the way you want. Good luck with that. Or, instead you can give them something they want that also solves the problems you want solved. Renewable Energy, Recyclable products, less polluting products that are also more desirable (think Tesla Model s) Making new tech that solves those issues and at the same time provides something more desirable than current products is the only realistic way forward.
elchief 14y ago
No, it will probably produce about 85% fewer cars. KPMG's report comes to the same conclusion as mine: http://vancouverdata.blogspot.ca/2012/08/googles-self-driving-cars-are-going-to.html http://vancouverdata.blogspot.ca/2012/08/googles-self-drivin...

jaggederest 14y ago

> We will need more roads, more cars and that will produce more pollution. Nope. Less. Cars-per-person will nosedive from almost 1:1 in the US right now to maybe 1:5 - that means the embodied energy wasted on cars will go down. Per-mile energy costs will go down too, if cars are driven efficiently. It also enables the large-scale conversion of the US car fleet to electric propulsion. Cars can recharge themselves and aren't range limited because you can swap cars rather than waiting. It's huge. It's as big as the invention of the car was. All the human hours wasted on moving things from A to B will gradually go away.

visarga 14y ago
Imagine the delivery systems - FedEx, DHL, etc. Fresh food every day delivered from the farm? Not a problem any more. Also, regarding pollution - traveling salesman algorithm optimizations would reduce the distance travelled and CO2 emitted for the same outcome.
thoughtcriminal 14y ago
That's a lot of ifs, and making a lot of assumptions. We don't have this kind of time. For God sakes, please snap out of your delusion.
- r0s 14y ago
  You're deluded if you think car culture in the US can change significantly anytime soon. Call me a cynic, and I'll call you a fool. If you want to throw around platitudes, why not address the real problem: uncontrolled population. Or does that make you uncomfortable?
  - thoughtcriminal 14y ago
    No Mr.Pot, overpopulation isn't the problem. Greed and misallocation of land and resources is the problem. Too many cars is a problem. And you calling the kettle black is a problem. I don't drive, you do, therefore you are uncomfortable with the reality that you are destroying the environment and the air and shifting the responsibility elsewhere.
    - r0s 14y ago
      No, allocation of resources depends entirely on scarcity, because no working system of fair distribution will ever happen in the real world. Unless you rely on charity to take care of everyone, which I guess is your solution. More likely you haven't thought about it. Cars don't have to be internal-combustion. You have no moral authority, just shrill accusations. Your lack of driving is a lame dodge for your destructive, hypocritical, blind consumerism; which is doing far more damage than a car ever could. Feel free to defend your lifestyle here and pretend you don't shit all over the third world as much as the average American. You're fooling yourself though. Either you work for a company that does a ton of environmental damage, or your parents do, and they pay your bills (more likely). You pay taxes to a government with a massive military machine that destroys the environment and subsidizes the worst companies. But maybe your lack of car makes you special.
      - jaggederest 14y ago
        The correct term for his arguments is 'hair shirt green'.
      - thoughtcriminal 14y ago
        You don't know what you're talking about. I don't live in the US.

suhastech 14y ago

Yes, I agree that the world is moving more toward virtual commuting. Somehow, I feel there is still no alterative to real world communication. Until that is fixed, this is still amazing. Self driving cars will have a metro train like experience with very good reach thanks to the existing infrastructure (roads).

visarga 14y ago
I feel Skype + VNC form a good enough solution for many situations. I am working with my brother on a project like this and it is just as good as physically being at the same desk. The mouse and desktop apps seem almost as responsive as on a local computer. The sound is just as good as in person.
- suhastech 14y ago
  I agree. This situation works great for computer related work. You probably can't build a robot or waltz with your partner on Skype.

justincormack 14y ago

You can solve all these same problems with bicycles, if your cities are more dense.

gfodor 14y ago

You have got to be kidding me, spoken like a true luddite. You realize if autonomous cars were suddenly a real thing, the entire world economy would shift and become wildly more efficient, right? One of the pillars of our transportation infrastructure is that vehicles have an operator. This dictates their form, this dictates the manner in which we build roads, bridges, etc. This dictates the manner in which we design supply chains, the way we transport energy, the way we build cities and towns. It's hard to imagine anyone using the word "short sighted" to describe the concept of autonomous cars. It's one of the most ambitious technology projects going on today and it stands to be as revolutionary as the original automobile.

thoughtcriminal 14y ago
You don't seem to understand the resources required to build a car, and the punishing toll it exacts on the planet. And how roads disrupt migratory paths of animals. Technology isn't the answer to problems of air quality and the preservation of wildlife. Making significant changes to our lifestyle is, but we need to snap out of this delusional wishful thinking and make changes based on reality.
- kaolinite 14y ago
  No, technology is potentially an answer to air quality problems and preservation of wildlife - it's just not the answer you want, for some reason.
- greggman 14y ago
  Actually technology is the only realistic solution. You can keep trying to get 7 billion people to behave the way you want. Good luck with that. Or, instead you can give them something they want that also solves the problems you want solved. Renewable Energy, Recyclable products, less polluting products that are also more desirable (think Tesla Model s) Making new tech that solves those issues and at the same time provides something more desirable than current products is the only realistic way forward.

elchief 14y ago

No, it will probably produce about 85% fewer cars. KPMG's report comes to the same conclusion as mine: http://vancouverdata.blogspot.ca/2012/08/googles-self-driving-cars-are-going-to.html http://vancouverdata.blogspot.ca/2012/08/googles-self-drivin...