4 ms·

I was one of the people who made a comment about this. I'm not going to defend that I think attempting to replace sed/grep is a bad idea (especially not in 140

by zeeg 14y ago

I was one of the people who made a comment about this. I'm not going to defend that I think attempting to replace sed/grep is a bad idea (especially not in 140 characters), but I will defend people's opinions. Everyone has one, most of them you won't agree with. Whether they're nice or not. I'm generally not a nice person, at least online, that's my choice. That said, especially with this being the internet, you have to deal with others opinions. While some people may go above and beyond (even myself sometimes) and actually be very mean with their opinion, that doesn't change the fact that they're entitled to it. If you don't like it, ignore it. If you can't ignore it, then you won't survive. The fact that people somehow managed to turn this into the continuous drama debate about gender is just pathetic.

tunesmith 14y ago
Why do you choose to not be a nice person (online)? Just curious. Also, I think the "If you don't like, ignore it. If you can't ignore it, then you won't survive," is self-serving advice. It'd be easier to take seriously if you were one of the nice people.
- rjzzleep 14y ago
  Why does it matter to you what some dude, somewhere in the globe thinks of you? Just curious.
  - chris_wot 14y ago
    Because he has a lot of followers, and is influential in his own way. In other words, he's not just "some dude".
    - daeken 14y ago
      In the words of Nick Hornby, "Some guy on the 'net thinks I suck, and he should know: he's got his own blog."
- zeeg 14y ago
  I don't necessarily choose it, I just don't go out of my way (like most people) to be nice. I would argue, that what makes me who I am (a driven, passionate person) also leads to traits like being honestly vocal about things. Whether the way these things are presented is directly related or not is a little bit different. If I see something I don't like, whether it's on the internet, at work, or just in general, I will usually say I don't like it. Now Twitter doesn't make a great means of communication for things like this (e.g. you can really provide much insight, or realistically follow up), it does make it easy. I would argue that people who are unwilling to give their opinion (and I know that there's many on both sides of everything, that are quiet), are simply forcing themselves into an uncomfortable situation. Often you (or rather I) will deal with the results of your opinion, but for the freedom it offers, and the drive it gives me, I'll stick by it. That said, I admire Heather for doing something, but I am rather unhappy that the result of this was a (IMO, unnecessary) blog post, a ton of ignorant comments on the internet, and more importantly, people attempting to turn the situation into something it isnt.
  - rosser 14y ago
    ...and more importantly, people attempting to turn the situation into something it isnt. The only party I've seen so far actually trying to make this storm in a teacup into anything other than what it is — namely, people being assholes on the internet — is you, with your weak, if persistent, attempts to make it about gender. It's not, it never was, and I'm pretty sure you know that, so playing that card is cheap and dishonest, at best. I'm no psychologist, but to my mind, that kind of behavior absolutely reeks of awareness that the thing you're trying to make be about something else wasn't kosher in the first place.
    - keppy 14y ago
      People give me shit about code and no one cares because I'm like everyone else here--male and single :(
  - blibble 14y ago
    being driven and passionate, and having the social skills to be able criticise without upsetting people are not mutually exclusive.
rjzzleep 14y ago
at least someone has the balls to stick with his opinion. gender might actually be part of the issue. people are way more protective over women's feeling than they are over mens. is that reverse sexist or something? I don't get why people immediately turn into: a) a gender debate, and b) act as if programming is the only place where people have harsh opinions. get over it. if someone on the internet somewhere on the other side of the world says something that you don't like, and you break into tears, you should be reexamining your sense of self-worth. agitated? sure, why not. but, breaking into tears? really? I blame hollywood, and commercials(yes, seriously).
logn 14y ago
I think the point was, she wasn't trying to replace sed/grep. She had a script which she wrote and got some benefit from and decided, why not, post it on github. That said, I'm glad at least someone stuck to their opinion. I don't see the problem in criticizing the utility of software. Sure, we should all be nice, but that doesn't mean we can't be critical. How many people defending her have left negative comments on Show HN posts? Also, if you thought she made sed/grep worse, wait till you see my frankenstein: https://github.com/hollingsworthd/POSIXplorer https://github.com/hollingsworthd/POSIXplorer
vinhboy 14y ago
Yea, it's odd to me how much crap you three guys are getting for this. It's not like you guys criticized the person. You criticized code. My goodness. I wish someone would come and criticize my code. It would be a great learning experience.
- rosser 14y ago
  This wasn't criticism. It was ridicule.
  - chris_wot 14y ago
    Agreed. He didn't write: "I think this is a bad solution", he wrote "Ever wanted to make sed or grep worse?". It's like zeeg can't see the sheer snark in the comment, like he believes that Heather was deliberately trying to make Unix worse. Which she wasn't. Now he's surprised that he's been called out on it.
blibble 14y ago
why is trying to replace sed/grep a bad idea? for example: ack is really, really useful.
wpietri 14y ago
You're entitled to be mean about things you don't like? But when other people have opinions on your opinions, you're suddenly a live-and-let-live guy? C'mon. Of course, you can't even apply your own advice here. People have opinions that maybe there was some gender bias going on, but are you ignoring them? No, you're reflexively bashing them. And you certainly didn't just "ignore it" when you came across some code you didn't like. So if you've got a principled intellectual stand here, I can't find it. As far as I can tell, your take is, "I like being a dick, but you people should shut up."

by zeeg 14y ago

tunesmith 14y ago

Why do you choose to not be a nice person (online)? Just curious. Also, I think the "If you don't like, ignore it. If you can't ignore it, then you won't survive," is self-serving advice. It'd be easier to take seriously if you were one of the nice people.

rjzzleep 14y ago
Why does it matter to you what some dude, somewhere in the globe thinks of you? Just curious.
- chris_wot 14y ago
  Because he has a lot of followers, and is influential in his own way. In other words, he's not just "some dude".
  - daeken 14y ago
    In the words of Nick Hornby, "Some guy on the 'net thinks I suck, and he should know: he's got his own blog."
zeeg 14y ago
I don't necessarily choose it, I just don't go out of my way (like most people) to be nice. I would argue, that what makes me who I am (a driven, passionate person) also leads to traits like being honestly vocal about things. Whether the way these things are presented is directly related or not is a little bit different. If I see something I don't like, whether it's on the internet, at work, or just in general, I will usually say I don't like it. Now Twitter doesn't make a great means of communication for things like this (e.g. you can really provide much insight, or realistically follow up), it does make it easy. I would argue that people who are unwilling to give their opinion (and I know that there's many on both sides of everything, that are quiet), are simply forcing themselves into an uncomfortable situation. Often you (or rather I) will deal with the results of your opinion, but for the freedom it offers, and the drive it gives me, I'll stick by it. That said, I admire Heather for doing something, but I am rather unhappy that the result of this was a (IMO, unnecessary) blog post, a ton of ignorant comments on the internet, and more importantly, people attempting to turn the situation into something it isnt.
- rosser 14y ago
  ...and more importantly, people attempting to turn the situation into something it isnt. The only party I've seen so far actually trying to make this storm in a teacup into anything other than what it is — namely, people being assholes on the internet — is you, with your weak, if persistent, attempts to make it about gender. It's not, it never was, and I'm pretty sure you know that, so playing that card is cheap and dishonest, at best. I'm no psychologist, but to my mind, that kind of behavior absolutely reeks of awareness that the thing you're trying to make be about something else wasn't kosher in the first place.
  - keppy 14y ago
    People give me shit about code and no one cares because I'm like everyone else here--male and single :(
- blibble 14y ago
  being driven and passionate, and having the social skills to be able criticise without upsetting people are not mutually exclusive.

rjzzleep 14y ago

at least someone has the balls to stick with his opinion. gender might actually be part of the issue. people are way more protective over women's feeling than they are over mens. is that reverse sexist or something? I don't get why people immediately turn into: a) a gender debate, and b) act as if programming is the only place where people have harsh opinions. get over it. if someone on the internet somewhere on the other side of the world says something that you don't like, and you break into tears, you should be reexamining your sense of self-worth. agitated? sure, why not. but, breaking into tears? really? I blame hollywood, and commercials(yes, seriously).

logn 14y ago

I think the point was, she wasn't trying to replace sed/grep. She had a script which she wrote and got some benefit from and decided, why not, post it on github. That said, I'm glad at least someone stuck to their opinion. I don't see the problem in criticizing the utility of software. Sure, we should all be nice, but that doesn't mean we can't be critical. How many people defending her have left negative comments on Show HN posts? Also, if you thought she made sed/grep worse, wait till you see my frankenstein: https://github.com/hollingsworthd/POSIXplorer https://github.com/hollingsworthd/POSIXplorer

vinhboy 14y ago

Yea, it's odd to me how much crap you three guys are getting for this. It's not like you guys criticized the person. You criticized code. My goodness. I wish someone would come and criticize my code. It would be a great learning experience.

rosser 14y ago
This wasn't criticism. It was ridicule.
- chris_wot 14y ago
  Agreed. He didn't write: "I think this is a bad solution", he wrote "Ever wanted to make sed or grep worse?". It's like zeeg can't see the sheer snark in the comment, like he believes that Heather was deliberately trying to make Unix worse. Which she wasn't. Now he's surprised that he's been called out on it.

blibble 14y ago

why is trying to replace sed/grep a bad idea? for example: ack is really, really useful.

wpietri 14y ago

You're entitled to be mean about things you don't like? But when other people have opinions on your opinions, you're suddenly a live-and-let-live guy? C'mon. Of course, you can't even apply your own advice here. People have opinions that maybe there was some gender bias going on, but are you ignoring them? No, you're reflexively bashing them. And you certainly didn't just "ignore it" when you came across some code you didn't like. So if you've got a principled intellectual stand here, I can't find it. As far as I can tell, your take is, "I like being a dick, but you people should shut up."