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The above is in addition to the "independence" baked into the American culture about the open road and the automobile. Do you think there is something inherent

by vecinu 14y ago

The above is in addition to the "independence" baked into the American culture about the open road and the automobile. Do you think there is something inherently wrong with the feeling of independence and happiness attained from the car culture in the US? I am still dubious that self-driving and non-self-driving cars will be able to share a road in the future. If this doesn't happen, I doubt Americans will freely give up their 'right' to drive the way they want.

jmspring 14y ago
"Do you think there is something inherently wrong with the feeling of independence and happiness attained from the car culture in the US?" Not at all. Note, I had a car that in 12 years, I put 256000 miles on, while I had a second vehicle during that time that had many miles put on it as well. I personally love road trips. One area where modern vehicles (hybrids and eventually self-driving) have no place (for now) is off roaring. Every year or two, I do road trips that include up to (and sometimes exceeding) 1000 miles off road -- not just dirt, but jeep trails, high clearance, having one person act as a spotter kind of stuff. Where my comment was directed is that all the technology in the world isn't going to do away with the car culture you point out anytime soon (probably not in my lifetime).
sliverstorm 14y ago
I am still dubious that self-driving and non-self-driving cars will be able to share a road in the future How exactly do you figure? You don't think regular drivers can handle a road with computer cars? Or you don't think computer cars can handle a road with people?
warfangle 14y ago
Not the parent, but I do think there is something inherently wrong about it. I grew up around cars, driving cars (heck, my college job was the stereotypical pizza delivery guy). I live in a metropolitan area where I can go just about anywhere I need to with the swipe of a card and waiting a few minutes on a train platform. The feeling of independence that I didn't need to worry about the CV boots on my axles screwing up and costing me hundreds in a replacement axle. The feeling of independence that I'm not contributing significantly to pollution. The feeling of independence that _getting out and walking somewhere_ gives me. The feeling of independence that I get to read a book on my commute instead of staring at the ass-end of an SUV jettisoning metric tons of fumes while in stop-and-go-traffic. Do I wish I had a car for getting out of the city and into the countryside sometimes? Well, sure. That's what zipcar is for. I _do_ admit that the feeling of driving is exhilarating. Pushing the pedal down, feeling the engine rev, connecting with the road through the tires. For the majority of uses, I can see driverless cars completely taking over. And for those who want to drive endless country roads? Well, driverless cars will probably be built to drive with the expectation that every other car on the road is being driven by a drunken teenager on a methamphetamine binge. For liability purposes. And in certain parts of the country, you can still see horse-drawn carriages clopping along the shoulder. So you'll [the quintessential driver, who just wants to drive because of some ass-backwards ideal of freedom which is actually more crippling than freeing] will be just fine. If not? Well, we have four-wheeler specific mudding "roads" out there right now, don't we? I could see the blue ridge parkway, for example, being a driver-only road (it is incredibly fun to drive).
- overgard 14y ago
  You're lucky. It's a luxury to live in an area with effective mass transportation. A lot of people aren't so lucky. The freedom a vehicle provides those people is quite real.
  - Someone 14y ago
    Counterargument is that people exerting their freedom to own a car has built a society where areas without effective mass transportation are common, thus forcing others to also buy a car. Suburbs would have been built differently if not for private car ownership. LA would not exist in its current form.
  - Tichy 14y ago
    Usually you can choose where you live. Where I live (Germany) the government unfortunately subsidizes car travel and living in the country side. Not sure what the economics factors are in the US. I suppose gas is cheaper, but still, owning a car must cost a lot of money. Really cheaper to go car+suburb than pay the additinal money you saved on the car for rent in the city?
  - warfangle 14y ago
    Oh, I completely agree -- the feeling of mobility freedom when I got my first (and only; now sold) car was unparalleled, and a prerequisite for me being able to live on my own outside the family home. But that freedom would not be infringed by a driverless car, would it?
millstone 14y ago
In addition to pushback about our 'right to drive the way we want' (which will inevitably be complicated by government regulations on driverless vehicles), there's the practical fact that cars that require a driver will be here for decades. My family just got rid of a '92 Volvo, and a few years back, a '67 Mustang, still street legal. If 45 year old cars are still on the road, it may be that none of us live to see the promise of a completely computer controlled system. On the other hand, a "Cash for Clunkers" on a big scale could accelerate the transition.
- Joeri 14y ago
  Insurance premiums will probably make it a financially sound move to go driverless. Existing cars can be retrofitted.

by vecinu 14y ago

jmspring 14y ago

"Do you think there is something inherently wrong with the feeling of independence and happiness attained from the car culture in the US?" Not at all. Note, I had a car that in 12 years, I put 256000 miles on, while I had a second vehicle during that time that had many miles put on it as well. I personally love road trips. One area where modern vehicles (hybrids and eventually self-driving) have no place (for now) is off roaring. Every year or two, I do road trips that include up to (and sometimes exceeding) 1000 miles off road -- not just dirt, but jeep trails, high clearance, having one person act as a spotter kind of stuff. Where my comment was directed is that all the technology in the world isn't going to do away with the car culture you point out anytime soon (probably not in my lifetime).

sliverstorm 14y ago

I am still dubious that self-driving and non-self-driving cars will be able to share a road in the future How exactly do you figure? You don't think regular drivers can handle a road with computer cars? Or you don't think computer cars can handle a road with people?

warfangle 14y ago

Not the parent, but I do think there is something inherently wrong about it. I grew up around cars, driving cars (heck, my college job was the stereotypical pizza delivery guy). I live in a metropolitan area where I can go just about anywhere I need to with the swipe of a card and waiting a few minutes on a train platform. The feeling of independence that I didn't need to worry about the CV boots on my axles screwing up and costing me hundreds in a replacement axle. The feeling of independence that I'm not contributing significantly to pollution. The feeling of independence that _getting out and walking somewhere_ gives me. The feeling of independence that I get to read a book on my commute instead of staring at the ass-end of an SUV jettisoning metric tons of fumes while in stop-and-go-traffic. Do I wish I had a car for getting out of the city and into the countryside sometimes? Well, sure. That's what zipcar is for. I _do_ admit that the feeling of driving is exhilarating. Pushing the pedal down, feeling the engine rev, connecting with the road through the tires. For the majority of uses, I can see driverless cars completely taking over. And for those who want to drive endless country roads? Well, driverless cars will probably be built to drive with the expectation that every other car on the road is being driven by a drunken teenager on a methamphetamine binge. For liability purposes. And in certain parts of the country, you can still see horse-drawn carriages clopping along the shoulder. So you'll [the quintessential driver, who just wants to drive because of some ass-backwards ideal of freedom which is actually more crippling than freeing] will be just fine. If not? Well, we have four-wheeler specific mudding "roads" out there right now, don't we? I could see the blue ridge parkway, for example, being a driver-only road (it is incredibly fun to drive).

overgard 14y ago
You're lucky. It's a luxury to live in an area with effective mass transportation. A lot of people aren't so lucky. The freedom a vehicle provides those people is quite real.
- Someone 14y ago
  Counterargument is that people exerting their freedom to own a car has built a society where areas without effective mass transportation are common, thus forcing others to also buy a car. Suburbs would have been built differently if not for private car ownership. LA would not exist in its current form.
- Tichy 14y ago
  Usually you can choose where you live. Where I live (Germany) the government unfortunately subsidizes car travel and living in the country side. Not sure what the economics factors are in the US. I suppose gas is cheaper, but still, owning a car must cost a lot of money. Really cheaper to go car+suburb than pay the additinal money you saved on the car for rent in the city?
- warfangle 14y ago
  Oh, I completely agree -- the feeling of mobility freedom when I got my first (and only; now sold) car was unparalleled, and a prerequisite for me being able to live on my own outside the family home. But that freedom would not be infringed by a driverless car, would it?

millstone 14y ago

In addition to pushback about our 'right to drive the way we want' (which will inevitably be complicated by government regulations on driverless vehicles), there's the practical fact that cars that require a driver will be here for decades. My family just got rid of a '92 Volvo, and a few years back, a '67 Mustang, still street legal. If 45 year old cars are still on the road, it may be that none of us live to see the promise of a completely computer controlled system. On the other hand, a "Cash for Clunkers" on a big scale could accelerate the transition.

Joeri 14y ago
Insurance premiums will probably make it a financially sound move to go driverless. Existing cars can be retrofitted.