5 ms·

This line of reasoning requires the belief that a company has some special claim to you, which I find pretty distasteful. The company doesn't own you, you are n

This line of reasoning requires the belief that a company has some special claim to you, which I find pretty distasteful. The company doesn't own you, you are not an indentured servant. You didn't sign a contract saying you'd work there for life. And more importantly, they will certainly fire you as soon as they need to. This is in no way analogous to a committed marital relationship, where the entire idea is lifetime exclusivity, or dating when you are theoretically working towards that.

enraged_camel 14y ago
>>This line of reasoning requires the belief that a company has some special claim to you, which I find pretty distasteful. The company doesn't own you, you are not an indentured servant. Neither does your girlfriend. You are not an indentured servant to her. But the fact that you are dating her means that there is mutual trust on both sides, similar to that in an employee-employer arrangement. Poaching undermines that trust. edit: not sure why I'm getting downvoted. "Don't downvote simply because you disagree" was an unspoken rule, I thought? If you have a disagreement, voice it.
- tolmasky 14y ago
  The employer-employee relationship is a contractual agreement regarding the exchange of money for labor. Are you going to argue that that is similar to dating? Hopefully not. The day I have to pay my girlfriend to be with me is the day I won't be offended if someone tries to "steal" her away. Employer-employee relationships are asymmetrical and purely business oriented. There is no "trust" on their side, I can guarantee you that - that is why they have you sign NDA's when you work on secret things (I have yet to find a company that just trusts you to keep it all secret). That is why it is so beneficial for them to rely on you believing in precisely these sorts of analogies: they have lawyers and contracts on their side, you are left with believing in "loyalty" and "trust". The fact that you equate contractual work between a corporation and a person to a loving relationship between two equals is quite demonstrative of my original point.
  - enraged_camel 14y ago
    >>The employer-employee relationship is a contractual agreement regarding the exchange of money for labor. Are you going to argue that that is similar to dating? Hopefully not. The day I have to pay my girlfriend to be with me is the day I won't be offended if someone tries to "steal" her away. You don't have to pay your girlfriend to be with you, since presumably she also gets various benefits from dating you. Whether the transaction happens via money or some other medium such as care and attention is quite irrelevant. I find it unbelievable that you are claiming there is no trust in employer-employee relationships. On the contrary, if you examine the basis of such relationships you'll find that the employer is giving you a job in the first place because they trust that you will be able to do it, and you are taking the job in the first place because you trust them that they won't screw you over. Also, to address some other things you said previously: >>You didn't sign a contract saying you'd work there for life. I also didn't sign a contract I would date my girlfriend indefinitely. Note that I said girlfriend, not wife. >>And more importantly, they will certainly fire you as soon as they need to. Same thing with relationships: one person will break up with or divorce the other as soon as they feel like they aren't getting what they want or need out of the relationship. >>This is in no way analogous to a committed marital relationship, where the entire idea is lifetime exclusivity, or dating when you are theoretically working towards that. Again, I never said marriage. I said trying to poach a girl who is in a relationship (not marriage) is unethical, just like trying to poach another company's employee. If said employee comes seeking you out, then fine. But actively recruiting them because they work for Company X is huge bullshit, and I am saddened that so many intelligent people here try to justify it by claiming it is somehow good for the employee.
    - tolmasky 14y ago
      Its really weird that you decided to address my last comment more than my current comment, but whatever: 1. I brought up marriage (again, in my last comment), only to tie it to dating as an often expected outcome. In other words "these things apply to marriage, and since dating is usually used as a vehicle towards marriage, they thus apply to some degree to dating". 2. The reason dating is different is because there is an actual expectation of love, exclusivity, and longevity. There is absolutely no contract involved, thus these become the primary axis of the relationship. For example, note that if it is explicitly an open relationship, then the particular expectation of exclusivity disappears, in which case these actions would be legitimately considered "less scummy". With employment, there is a contract, and the other factors that you believe are influential to the relationship exist solely in your mind, and I will re-iterate, are in no way reciprocated by your employer. You will receive a bad surprise someday when you find out that the employer has no such notions of loyalty to you. Finally, I am now really curious about your mindset. You seem incredibly insistent that employer-employee relationships are A LOT like dating. You believe that another company trying to hire you is like someone trying to steal a girlfriend. It only follows that you looking for other employment would be analogous to going on OKCupid behind her back? Is this how you feel as well? Do you think that employees should only try to find jobs after officially quitting and thus suffer possible windows of unemployment? Or is that the arbitrary point where the analogy ends in your mind?
- JabavuAdams 14y ago
  The power differential is everything. By not addressing this in your comments, your opinion comes off as very light-weight and people are probably reacting to that. Two relationship partners have roughly equal power, or failing that at least not a 100x or more disparity. This makes it a terrible analogy. The whole point of labour laws is to address this disparity.

enraged_camel 14y ago

>>This line of reasoning requires the belief that a company has some special claim to you, which I find pretty distasteful. The company doesn't own you, you are not an indentured servant. Neither does your girlfriend. You are not an indentured servant to her. But the fact that you are dating her means that there is mutual trust on both sides, similar to that in an employee-employer arrangement. Poaching undermines that trust. edit: not sure why I'm getting downvoted. "Don't downvote simply because you disagree" was an unspoken rule, I thought? If you have a disagreement, voice it.

tolmasky 14y ago
The employer-employee relationship is a contractual agreement regarding the exchange of money for labor. Are you going to argue that that is similar to dating? Hopefully not. The day I have to pay my girlfriend to be with me is the day I won't be offended if someone tries to "steal" her away. Employer-employee relationships are asymmetrical and purely business oriented. There is no "trust" on their side, I can guarantee you that - that is why they have you sign NDA's when you work on secret things (I have yet to find a company that just trusts you to keep it all secret). That is why it is so beneficial for them to rely on you believing in precisely these sorts of analogies: they have lawyers and contracts on their side, you are left with believing in "loyalty" and "trust". The fact that you equate contractual work between a corporation and a person to a loving relationship between two equals is quite demonstrative of my original point.
- enraged_camel 14y ago
  >>The employer-employee relationship is a contractual agreement regarding the exchange of money for labor. Are you going to argue that that is similar to dating? Hopefully not. The day I have to pay my girlfriend to be with me is the day I won't be offended if someone tries to "steal" her away. You don't have to pay your girlfriend to be with you, since presumably she also gets various benefits from dating you. Whether the transaction happens via money or some other medium such as care and attention is quite irrelevant. I find it unbelievable that you are claiming there is no trust in employer-employee relationships. On the contrary, if you examine the basis of such relationships you'll find that the employer is giving you a job in the first place because they trust that you will be able to do it, and you are taking the job in the first place because you trust them that they won't screw you over. Also, to address some other things you said previously: >>You didn't sign a contract saying you'd work there for life. I also didn't sign a contract I would date my girlfriend indefinitely. Note that I said girlfriend, not wife. >>And more importantly, they will certainly fire you as soon as they need to. Same thing with relationships: one person will break up with or divorce the other as soon as they feel like they aren't getting what they want or need out of the relationship. >>This is in no way analogous to a committed marital relationship, where the entire idea is lifetime exclusivity, or dating when you are theoretically working towards that. Again, I never said marriage. I said trying to poach a girl who is in a relationship (not marriage) is unethical, just like trying to poach another company's employee. If said employee comes seeking you out, then fine. But actively recruiting them because they work for Company X is huge bullshit, and I am saddened that so many intelligent people here try to justify it by claiming it is somehow good for the employee.
  - tolmasky 14y ago
    Its really weird that you decided to address my last comment more than my current comment, but whatever: 1. I brought up marriage (again, in my last comment), only to tie it to dating as an often expected outcome. In other words "these things apply to marriage, and since dating is usually used as a vehicle towards marriage, they thus apply to some degree to dating". 2. The reason dating is different is because there is an actual expectation of love, exclusivity, and longevity. There is absolutely no contract involved, thus these become the primary axis of the relationship. For example, note that if it is explicitly an open relationship, then the particular expectation of exclusivity disappears, in which case these actions would be legitimately considered "less scummy". With employment, there is a contract, and the other factors that you believe are influential to the relationship exist solely in your mind, and I will re-iterate, are in no way reciprocated by your employer. You will receive a bad surprise someday when you find out that the employer has no such notions of loyalty to you. Finally, I am now really curious about your mindset. You seem incredibly insistent that employer-employee relationships are A LOT like dating. You believe that another company trying to hire you is like someone trying to steal a girlfriend. It only follows that you looking for other employment would be analogous to going on OKCupid behind her back? Is this how you feel as well? Do you think that employees should only try to find jobs after officially quitting and thus suffer possible windows of unemployment? Or is that the arbitrary point where the analogy ends in your mind?
JabavuAdams 14y ago
The power differential is everything. By not addressing this in your comments, your opinion comes off as very light-weight and people are probably reacting to that. Two relationship partners have roughly equal power, or failing that at least not a 100x or more disparity. This makes it a terrible analogy. The whole point of labour laws is to address this disparity.