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There is nothing wrong with poaching (and it is certainly not illegal). It is frowned upon the same way as "talking about your salary" is frowned upon, and usua

There is nothing wrong with poaching (and it is certainly not illegal). It is frowned upon the same way as "talking about your salary" is frowned upon, and usually for the same reason: it leads to increased leverage for employees. By creating fictitious mores around these two activities, employees have less of an understanding of how well or badly they are being treated (less insight into the market for their talents). If you are making twice as much as me because I am a better negotiator, you may continue without a fuss for years if you never find out. Creating a culture about not talking about your salary is thus highly valuable to an employer. Similarly, if I am a good employee and too distracted by working, I may never realize that the going salary for a company is now X times what I make. Another company contacting me may make me aware of this, and thus it is equally beneficial to attach false stigma to this practice. There is (or was at some point) a similar amount of stigma about being disloyal to your employer (thankfully this has more or less disappeared). If it is so absurd that someone would leave Apple for Palm, then why did they care and threaten so much?

enraged_camel 14y ago
>>There is nothing wrong with poaching (and it is certainly not illegal). I've always found it unethical. It's similar to going to a girl who has a boyfriend and saying "hey baby, I know you're dating Mike, but I would be such a better boyfriend for you..." Whether or not you would actually be a better boyfriend, or whether it is good for the girl, is quite besides the point.
- tolmasky 14y ago
  This line of reasoning requires the belief that a company has some special claim to you, which I find pretty distasteful. The company doesn't own you, you are not an indentured servant. You didn't sign a contract saying you'd work there for life. And more importantly, they will certainly fire you as soon as they need to. This is in no way analogous to a committed marital relationship, where the entire idea is lifetime exclusivity, or dating when you are theoretically working towards that.
  - enraged_camel 14y ago
    >>This line of reasoning requires the belief that a company has some special claim to you, which I find pretty distasteful. The company doesn't own you, you are not an indentured servant. Neither does your girlfriend. You are not an indentured servant to her. But the fact that you are dating her means that there is mutual trust on both sides, similar to that in an employee-employer arrangement. Poaching undermines that trust. edit: not sure why I'm getting downvoted. "Don't downvote simply because you disagree" was an unspoken rule, I thought? If you have a disagreement, voice it.
    - tolmasky 14y ago
      The employer-employee relationship is a contractual agreement regarding the exchange of money for labor. Are you going to argue that that is similar to dating? Hopefully not. The day I have to pay my girlfriend to be with me is the day I won't be offended if someone tries to "steal" her away. Employer-employee relationships are asymmetrical and purely business oriented. There is no "trust" on their side, I can guarantee you that - that is why they have you sign NDA's when you work on secret things (I have yet to find a company that just trusts you to keep it all secret). That is why it is so beneficial for them to rely on you believing in precisely these sorts of analogies: they have lawyers and contracts on their side, you are left with believing in "loyalty" and "trust". The fact that you equate contractual work between a corporation and a person to a loving relationship between two equals is quite demonstrative of my original point.
      - enraged_camel 14y ago
        >>The employer-employee relationship is a contractual agreement regarding the exchange of money for labor. Are you going to argue that that is similar to dating? Hopefully not. The day I have to pay my girlfriend to be with me is the day I won't be offended if someone tries to "steal" her away. You don't have to pay your girlfriend to be with you, since presumably she also gets various benefits from dating you. Whether the transaction happens via money or some other medium such as care and attention is quite irrelevant. I find it unbelievable that you are claiming there is no trust in employer-employee relationships. On the contrary, if you examine the basis of such relationships you'll find that the employer is giving you a job in the first place because they trust that you will be able to do it, and you are taking the job in the first place because you trust them that they won't screw you over. Also, to address some other things you said previously: >>You didn't sign a contract saying you'd work there for life. I also didn't sign a contract I would date my girlfriend indefinitely. Note that I said girlfriend, not wife. >>And more importantly, they will certainly fire you as soon as they need to. Same thing with relationships: one person will break up with or divorce the other as soon as they feel like they aren't getting what they want or need out of the relationship. >>This is in no way analogous to a committed marital relationship, where the entire idea is lifetime exclusivity, or dating when you are theoretically working towards that. Again, I never said marriage. I said trying to poach a girl who is in a relationship (not marriage) is unethical, just like trying to poach another company's employee. If said employee comes seeking you out, then fine. But actively recruiting them because they work for Company X is huge bullshit, and I am saddened that so many intelligent people here try to justify it by claiming it is somehow good for the employee.

enraged_camel 14y ago

>>There is nothing wrong with poaching (and it is certainly not illegal). I've always found it unethical. It's similar to going to a girl who has a boyfriend and saying "hey baby, I know you're dating Mike, but I would be such a better boyfriend for you..." Whether or not you would actually be a better boyfriend, or whether it is good for the girl, is quite besides the point.

tolmasky 14y ago
This line of reasoning requires the belief that a company has some special claim to you, which I find pretty distasteful. The company doesn't own you, you are not an indentured servant. You didn't sign a contract saying you'd work there for life. And more importantly, they will certainly fire you as soon as they need to. This is in no way analogous to a committed marital relationship, where the entire idea is lifetime exclusivity, or dating when you are theoretically working towards that.
- enraged_camel 14y ago
  >>This line of reasoning requires the belief that a company has some special claim to you, which I find pretty distasteful. The company doesn't own you, you are not an indentured servant. Neither does your girlfriend. You are not an indentured servant to her. But the fact that you are dating her means that there is mutual trust on both sides, similar to that in an employee-employer arrangement. Poaching undermines that trust. edit: not sure why I'm getting downvoted. "Don't downvote simply because you disagree" was an unspoken rule, I thought? If you have a disagreement, voice it.
  - tolmasky 14y ago
    The employer-employee relationship is a contractual agreement regarding the exchange of money for labor. Are you going to argue that that is similar to dating? Hopefully not. The day I have to pay my girlfriend to be with me is the day I won't be offended if someone tries to "steal" her away. Employer-employee relationships are asymmetrical and purely business oriented. There is no "trust" on their side, I can guarantee you that - that is why they have you sign NDA's when you work on secret things (I have yet to find a company that just trusts you to keep it all secret). That is why it is so beneficial for them to rely on you believing in precisely these sorts of analogies: they have lawyers and contracts on their side, you are left with believing in "loyalty" and "trust". The fact that you equate contractual work between a corporation and a person to a loving relationship between two equals is quite demonstrative of my original point.
    - enraged_camel 14y ago
      >>The employer-employee relationship is a contractual agreement regarding the exchange of money for labor. Are you going to argue that that is similar to dating? Hopefully not. The day I have to pay my girlfriend to be with me is the day I won't be offended if someone tries to "steal" her away. You don't have to pay your girlfriend to be with you, since presumably she also gets various benefits from dating you. Whether the transaction happens via money or some other medium such as care and attention is quite irrelevant. I find it unbelievable that you are claiming there is no trust in employer-employee relationships. On the contrary, if you examine the basis of such relationships you'll find that the employer is giving you a job in the first place because they trust that you will be able to do it, and you are taking the job in the first place because you trust them that they won't screw you over. Also, to address some other things you said previously: >>You didn't sign a contract saying you'd work there for life. I also didn't sign a contract I would date my girlfriend indefinitely. Note that I said girlfriend, not wife. >>And more importantly, they will certainly fire you as soon as they need to. Same thing with relationships: one person will break up with or divorce the other as soon as they feel like they aren't getting what they want or need out of the relationship. >>This is in no way analogous to a committed marital relationship, where the entire idea is lifetime exclusivity, or dating when you are theoretically working towards that. Again, I never said marriage. I said trying to poach a girl who is in a relationship (not marriage) is unethical, just like trying to poach another company's employee. If said employee comes seeking you out, then fine. But actively recruiting them because they work for Company X is huge bullshit, and I am saddened that so many intelligent people here try to justify it by claiming it is somehow good for the employee.