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"I know Hacker News types think that’s a great list of niches, but it’s actually a really terrible one. You can’t sell to ANY of those people." This piece of t

by SMrF 14y ago

"I know Hacker News types think that’s a great list of niches, but it’s actually a really terrible one. You can’t sell to ANY of those people." This piece of the conversation really left me wanting more, especially since I've been using that very same list with no success over the years. What are some good niches? Better yet, what's a heuristic for picking good niches? She seems to suggest we should focus on an audience we already have, as Nathan has with web developers (designers?), or that we could easily build. So I am the local corporate javascript expert: perhaps I could rally that into an audience of javascript developers or maybe even people that really need javascript developers?

SMrF 14y ago
"Not only do those audiences not buy things, not only are they scattered and incoherent and unprofessional and in many cases incompetent and/or broke…" Ok, so to perhaps answer my own question I'm just going to reverse this. A good niche buys things (specifically software if you're selling it). A good niche is well defined, easy to find and filled with competent people with money to spend. I think it's interesting that we are defining a kind of person, not a job description or industry.
- klaut 14y ago
  the keywords here are audiences vs niches. See, audences are made of people with worldviews. Niche is.. well, impersonal agregate, an industry - without any beliefs, pains, dreams...
- ahoyhere 14y ago
  I think it's interesting that we are defining a kind of person, not a job description or industry. People buy things… job descriptions and industries don't :)
ahoyhere 14y ago
I wrote about niches vs worldviews and even included a free lesson from my class, because it's such an important & under-reported topic: http://unicornfree.com/2011/niches-are-for-suckers/ http://unicornfree.com/2011/niches-are-for-suckers/ When I said Nathan was throwing away every advantage he had, and he ought to go vertical, I meant to go with an audience where you already have experience, pull, connections, insider knowledge. That's what I mean by "vertical." So yeah, if you're a go-to JavaScript guy, why would you start anywhere else but there? You'd just be pissing away your advantages.
ig1 14y ago
Selling software and data systems to lawyers is actually a huge business, there exist multiple billion dollar businesses selling to lawers ranging from legal reference systems to machine learning discovery tools.
- ahoyhere 14y ago
  Sure. SOMEBODY is making money off them. Can you, as a solo founder, not a lawyer, though? That's the question. SOMEBODY will win the lottery. That doesn't actually increase your chances. Everything I write, all the advice I give, is increasing the chance that the person I'm talking to will experience success. Some people get rich off consumer products. Some people get rich selling sex, or cool, or experiences. Some people do manage to sell into very tough (but lucrative) industries. But those are all a lot harder than taking the easy path of creating tools for people like you, who have problems you can solve, and who pay money. Me, I don't like risk. I also never tell people that my way is the only way. It's simply the way with the highest likelihood of returns. EDIT: By the by, I recently sold back my 12% share in a VERY promising, disruptive startup in the legal space… WITH insider knowledge and connections. The major cofounders worked their tails off for years doing everything right and for their troubles? They got almost zero buy-in. Then they clawed back shares for one last do-or-die thrust (which imo is more likely to be die than do). Unlike many people, I'm speaking from experience.
  - ig1 14y ago
    The argument made is that lawyers don't spend money on software, that's hugely different from saying "solo founder without a domain background" can't sell to lawyers.
    - ahoyhere 14y ago
      Here's what I said to Nathan: "You can’t sell to ANY of those people." And he can't. Are you just quibbling for the sake of quibbling?
      - ig1 14y ago

by SMrF 14y ago

SMrF 14y ago

"Not only do those audiences not buy things, not only are they scattered and incoherent and unprofessional and in many cases incompetent and/or broke…" Ok, so to perhaps answer my own question I'm just going to reverse this. A good niche buys things (specifically software if you're selling it). A good niche is well defined, easy to find and filled with competent people with money to spend. I think it's interesting that we are defining a kind of person, not a job description or industry.

klaut 14y ago
the keywords here are audiences vs niches. See, audences are made of people with worldviews. Niche is.. well, impersonal agregate, an industry - without any beliefs, pains, dreams...
ahoyhere 14y ago
I think it's interesting that we are defining a kind of person, not a job description or industry. People buy things… job descriptions and industries don't :)

ahoyhere 14y ago

I wrote about niches vs worldviews and even included a free lesson from my class, because it's such an important & under-reported topic: http://unicornfree.com/2011/niches-are-for-suckers/ http://unicornfree.com/2011/niches-are-for-suckers/ When I said Nathan was throwing away every advantage he had, and he ought to go vertical, I meant to go with an audience where you already have experience, pull, connections, insider knowledge. That's what I mean by "vertical." So yeah, if you're a go-to JavaScript guy, why would you start anywhere else but there? You'd just be pissing away your advantages.

ig1 14y ago

Selling software and data systems to lawyers is actually a huge business, there exist multiple billion dollar businesses selling to lawers ranging from legal reference systems to machine learning discovery tools.

ahoyhere 14y ago
Sure. SOMEBODY is making money off them. Can you, as a solo founder, not a lawyer, though? That's the question. SOMEBODY will win the lottery. That doesn't actually increase your chances. Everything I write, all the advice I give, is increasing the chance that the person I'm talking to will experience success. Some people get rich off consumer products. Some people get rich selling sex, or cool, or experiences. Some people do manage to sell into very tough (but lucrative) industries. But those are all a lot harder than taking the easy path of creating tools for people like you, who have problems you can solve, and who pay money. Me, I don't like risk. I also never tell people that my way is the only way. It's simply the way with the highest likelihood of returns. EDIT: By the by, I recently sold back my 12% share in a VERY promising, disruptive startup in the legal space… WITH insider knowledge and connections. The major cofounders worked their tails off for years doing everything right and for their troubles? They got almost zero buy-in. Then they clawed back shares for one last do-or-die thrust (which imo is more likely to be die than do). Unlike many people, I'm speaking from experience.
- ig1 14y ago
  The argument made is that lawyers don't spend money on software, that's hugely different from saying "solo founder without a domain background" can't sell to lawyers.
  - ahoyhere 14y ago
    Here's what I said to Nathan: "You can’t sell to ANY of those people." And he can't. Are you just quibbling for the sake of quibbling?
    - ig1 14y ago