5 ms·

Not really as a lot of the PACER content relates to matters -- divorce, custody disputes, etc -- that is of no direct interest to you. Unlike your server sourc

by hect0r 14y ago

Not really as a lot of the PACER content relates to matters -- divorce, custody disputes, etc -- that is of no direct interest to you. Unlike your server source code.

jonknee 14y ago
Who's to say what you're interested in. Most people would not know what to do with either PACER content or server source code, but in the hands of someone that does know what to do both are quite valuable. We have the ability for all this information to be free, I don't see why it shouldn't be taken advantage of.
- hect0r 14y ago
  We are talking about divorce cases (amongst other things). These should be private matters and there is no public benefit in this being made available for free via Google. To take your argument to its natural conclusion, all your interactions with publicly funded entities should be freely available as well. For example, maybe your medical records, your school transcripts, transcripts of complaints made to police about you, etc. I think most people who are lionising Aaron's efforts in "freeing" the PACER data really do so because they are in love with an idea rather than because of any considered assessment of the value (and harm) that this content could bring if made freely available.
  - jonknee 14y ago
    Again, who's to say what's useful? They're not private matters by rule, it's all public record. I could think of a bunch of uses for the data. I don't have any problem with public record actually being public (and I do have a problem with public records that aren't actually public). Medical records and school transcripts are not public records. 911 calls are public, but you have to know how to request them and that usually means they aren't released unless it's a newsworthy story and a local media outlet jumps through the hoop. Visitor logs should be public (like they are for the White House). You can request anyone's FBI file after they die, but that system could be quite a bit more efficient.
    - hect0r 14y ago
      The fundamental question is who decides what is a public record and what is not? Why are your medical records private but your ex-wife's court-room accusations that you were sexually promiscuous, impotent, or secretly homosexual to be considered public records that must be "freed"?
      - jonknee 14y ago
        Are you really asking this? The answer is obvious--the law. If you are offended that court records are public, start lobbying to get a bill passed that protects them. Healthcare has HIPAA which is why medical records are private.
  - mnutt 14y ago
    This seems pretty analogous to Facebook's Timeline and Graph Search features: once released, everyone is outraged over privacy implications, though the information was always there if you wanted to find it. It's the difference between 'free to all' and 'free to anyone willing to spend $0.10/page'. It may make it harder for someone to exploit, but it is a false sense of security.
    - hect0r 14y ago
      I agree. It would be better of this content was anonymised so that it cannot be associated with the participants since the names of the people involved are, for the most part, irrelevant to lawyers who need to read this content. As for the costs, then charging for it does provide a barrier to entry that would hopefully dissuade people from using it for nefarious purposes. A better model would be to recognise that the 'owners' of this content are the people involved in the case and perhaps allow them to license the content of their case and derive income from when it is used. This would address a large number of issues that exist with this system, including privacy.
analog 14y ago
PACER content relating to divorces, custody etc are no interest to me, but would be to a lawyer working in that field. Divorces typically cost thousands of whatever currency you're in, and are a long drawn out painful process even where there is no animosity between the parties. Making the raw materials that lawyers need to work with free as in beer as well as free as in speech will reduce the barriers to entry, bringing down costs and times, and letting people get on with their lives.
krrrh 14y ago
Aren't there some important cases in family law that would need to be referenced by a self-represented litigant?
hncommenter13 14y ago
PACER is the federal system of records. Divorce and family law matters, by contrast, are filed in state court. Some state court systems provide excellent access to dockets and documents (WI); others have access policies that make PACER's look open (UT).

by hect0r 14y ago

Not really as a lot of the PACER content relates to matters -- divorce, custody disputes, etc -- that is of no direct interest to you. Unlike your server source code.

jonknee 14y ago

Who's to say what you're interested in. Most people would not know what to do with either PACER content or server source code, but in the hands of someone that does know what to do both are quite valuable. We have the ability for all this information to be free, I don't see why it shouldn't be taken advantage of.

hect0r 14y ago
We are talking about divorce cases (amongst other things). These should be private matters and there is no public benefit in this being made available for free via Google. To take your argument to its natural conclusion, all your interactions with publicly funded entities should be freely available as well. For example, maybe your medical records, your school transcripts, transcripts of complaints made to police about you, etc. I think most people who are lionising Aaron's efforts in "freeing" the PACER data really do so because they are in love with an idea rather than because of any considered assessment of the value (and harm) that this content could bring if made freely available.
- jonknee 14y ago
  Again, who's to say what's useful? They're not private matters by rule, it's all public record. I could think of a bunch of uses for the data. I don't have any problem with public record actually being public (and I do have a problem with public records that aren't actually public). Medical records and school transcripts are not public records. 911 calls are public, but you have to know how to request them and that usually means they aren't released unless it's a newsworthy story and a local media outlet jumps through the hoop. Visitor logs should be public (like they are for the White House). You can request anyone's FBI file after they die, but that system could be quite a bit more efficient.
  - hect0r 14y ago
    The fundamental question is who decides what is a public record and what is not? Why are your medical records private but your ex-wife's court-room accusations that you were sexually promiscuous, impotent, or secretly homosexual to be considered public records that must be "freed"?
    - jonknee 14y ago
      Are you really asking this? The answer is obvious--the law. If you are offended that court records are public, start lobbying to get a bill passed that protects them. Healthcare has HIPAA which is why medical records are private.
- mnutt 14y ago
  This seems pretty analogous to Facebook's Timeline and Graph Search features: once released, everyone is outraged over privacy implications, though the information was always there if you wanted to find it. It's the difference between 'free to all' and 'free to anyone willing to spend $0.10/page'. It may make it harder for someone to exploit, but it is a false sense of security.
  - hect0r 14y ago
    I agree. It would be better of this content was anonymised so that it cannot be associated with the participants since the names of the people involved are, for the most part, irrelevant to lawyers who need to read this content. As for the costs, then charging for it does provide a barrier to entry that would hopefully dissuade people from using it for nefarious purposes. A better model would be to recognise that the 'owners' of this content are the people involved in the case and perhaps allow them to license the content of their case and derive income from when it is used. This would address a large number of issues that exist with this system, including privacy.

analog 14y ago

PACER content relating to divorces, custody etc are no interest to me, but would be to a lawyer working in that field. Divorces typically cost thousands of whatever currency you're in, and are a long drawn out painful process even where there is no animosity between the parties. Making the raw materials that lawyers need to work with free as in beer as well as free as in speech will reduce the barriers to entry, bringing down costs and times, and letting people get on with their lives.

krrrh 14y ago

Aren't there some important cases in family law that would need to be referenced by a self-represented litigant?

hncommenter13 14y ago

PACER is the federal system of records. Divorce and family law matters, by contrast, are filed in state court. Some state court systems provide excellent access to dockets and documents (WI); others have access policies that make PACER's look open (UT).