6 ms·

We should be realistic about two things: 1. Saying that Boston is the center of ideas is lacking. Ideas aren't an industry, the way movies, finance, or tech is

by yef 18y ago

We should be realistic about two things: 1. Saying that Boston is the center of ideas is lacking. Ideas aren't an industry, the way movies, finance, or tech is. Also, ideas are cheap. It's the vetting and execution of ideas that is valuable. 2. The quality of life issues need to be addressed. It's embarrassing that MIT students leave for Google, Facebook, etc., but I can also understand why. Aside from Kendall, the Boston area feels old, expensive, somewhat dilapidated, miserable in the winter. That's going to turn off a lot of people.

damienkatz 18y ago
> Boston area feels old, expensive, somewhat dilapidated, miserable in the winter I lived in the Boston area for about 7 years, and I can't help but agree with you. It's got it's upsides, but overall it's just not that nice there.
- modoc 18y ago
  I guess it depends on what you like. I just moved back to Boston and am glad to be back. I like the snow and sitting by a roaring fire drinking tea, and walking the esplanade in the summer is always lovely. I like the SV/SF area to visit, but honestly I'd never want to live there.
  - yef 18y ago
    Those things are great, and Boston does have its unique advantages. Digging your car out of the snow, slipping on ice, and gloomy days aren't. After 3 (ok, 2.8) winters here, those are the things that made me finally understand why people don't like winter.
    - modoc 18y ago
      Well, I grew up in Vermont, so I may be crazy, but I have a garage, good boots, and a love for snowboarding, walking in the snow, fireplaces, hot tea, and all that. I don't have to dig my car out of the snow, I don't slip on the ice, and I don't mind the dark days at all. I love the sense of history that Boston has, old churches and many places that played a big role during the American Revolution. For me, it's the perfect US city, with the right balance of culture, East Coast attitudes, weather, etc... But I totally understand that it's not for everyone:) With regards to the tech hub thing, I definitely see lots of younger tech people flocking to SV due to all the VC, Google, etc... That said, if you ignore the VC driven profitless startups, Boston still has a decent share of tech companies, and lots of other business (financial, medical, pharama/gene/biotech, etc..) which I think is important for a standard business ecosystem.
      - yef 18y ago
        We actually have very similar tastes. I guess I just need a garage. :)
      - evgen 18y ago
        > [I have] a love for snowboarding, walking in the snow, fireplaces, hot tea, and all that Ditto. The difference is that out here in the valley winter is a place up in the Sierra Nevadas that we visit when the December/January rain hits the bay area. The best part is that once we have had our fill of winter fun we drive back home :)
  - mickt 18y ago
    Even walking on the esplanade on a serene calm winter's day when there's no-one else about can be very tranquil. Also, I find walking about Boston, even in weather that most people think of as bad, a good way to help me concentrate my thoughts. Bad weather's not a big deal, you just have to dress appropriately.
    - cowmoo 18y ago
      Esplanade is also good for running too during the winter. Because if you are not dressed appropriately for the weather (i.e., in your running shorts), you are essentially forced to run the whole esplanade to keep warm 'till you get home.
lsb 18y ago
Speaking of quality of life issues, I was thinking of moving to California, but they really need to fix that gay marriage ban.
pg 18y ago
Ideas are an industry. Universities employ tens if not hundreds of thousands of people in Boston. And while the quality of life in Boston could definitely be improved, the oldness of the city is one of the things that attracts me about it. Old things are rich and comforting. New ones can be somewhat bleak. Not just because old things have a patina. Old things are more human, because they tend to be smaller and handmade, instead of just extruded from a factory somewhere.
- ivankirigin 18y ago
  There is also a very good architectural argument that old cities make for better quality of life. If you're Houston or LA, you're built for cars. That makes for a worse experience than subways and walkways. The public parks in Boston are excellent. The Minute Man bike trail is unrivaled, as far as I'm concerned. There is a great feedback loop here too. People that like things like the Public Garden are more likely to demand changes keep the feeling. Even the Big Dig, while a bullshit waste of public resources, turns out to make the city much more pedestrian friendly. It largely emerged because the city was too old to retrofit a freeway system that could handle the capacity above ground.
  - brlewis 18y ago
    The Big Dig made for a huge improvement. People who lived here in past years should see http://ourdoings.com/brlewis/2008-05-14 http://ourdoings.com/brlewis/2008-05-14
    - ivankirigin 18y ago
      That's quite striking. I agree that is has been pretty awesome, from what I can tell. I only moved to Boston right as it finished. There was inexcusable corruption and incompetence in the construction though. That puts of a taint on large municipal projects generally.
      - pg 18y ago
        The elevated highway it replaced was such a complete disaster that it's a net win to have it gone even with all the corruption. From what I've heard, though, the old highway was designed the way it was because of corruption too. The palpable aura of corruption in Boston probably doesn't help it as a tech hub. Corruption tends to yield low quality of life, because so much of the money that goes into the government goes to political supporters rather than into beneficial projects. I've noticed practically all very corrupt cities (Syracuse was a striking example) are economically backward, though it's hard to say which is cause and which is effect.
Agathos 18y ago
And then there's Kendall, which feels young, expensive, somewhat dilapidated, and miserable in the winter.
- cowmoo 18y ago
  Why do people like Kendall so much? Out of all the "squares" and neighborhoods in Boston, it sucks the most IMO. It's essentially the industrial park next to MIT. If people are so inclined to be in the "tech scene", live in any other neighborhood, Porter/Davis/Central/Beacon Hill/Brookline/JP and take the T to Kendall if you have to.
russell 18y ago
I lived in Cambridge for 6 years. It's cold. Cambridge didn't clear its sidewalks; it just let everything accumulate. I could tell when it was spring from the smell of 4 months of dog shit thawing. One December day I was walking across Cambridge Common, 10 degrees, the wind was blowing. I said, "to hell with this." The next month I moved to California and I've been warm ever since. :-)
- jamie 18y ago
  Funny- That's exactly my story as well. I've met quite a few Boston escapees out here in SF who all tell the same story. Loved Cambridge; hated the winter.

by yef 18y ago

damienkatz 18y ago

> Boston area feels old, expensive, somewhat dilapidated, miserable in the winter I lived in the Boston area for about 7 years, and I can't help but agree with you. It's got it's upsides, but overall it's just not that nice there.

modoc 18y ago
I guess it depends on what you like. I just moved back to Boston and am glad to be back. I like the snow and sitting by a roaring fire drinking tea, and walking the esplanade in the summer is always lovely. I like the SV/SF area to visit, but honestly I'd never want to live there.
- yef 18y ago
  Those things are great, and Boston does have its unique advantages. Digging your car out of the snow, slipping on ice, and gloomy days aren't. After 3 (ok, 2.8) winters here, those are the things that made me finally understand why people don't like winter.
  - modoc 18y ago
    Well, I grew up in Vermont, so I may be crazy, but I have a garage, good boots, and a love for snowboarding, walking in the snow, fireplaces, hot tea, and all that. I don't have to dig my car out of the snow, I don't slip on the ice, and I don't mind the dark days at all. I love the sense of history that Boston has, old churches and many places that played a big role during the American Revolution. For me, it's the perfect US city, with the right balance of culture, East Coast attitudes, weather, etc... But I totally understand that it's not for everyone:) With regards to the tech hub thing, I definitely see lots of younger tech people flocking to SV due to all the VC, Google, etc... That said, if you ignore the VC driven profitless startups, Boston still has a decent share of tech companies, and lots of other business (financial, medical, pharama/gene/biotech, etc..) which I think is important for a standard business ecosystem.
    - yef 18y ago
      We actually have very similar tastes. I guess I just need a garage. :)
    - evgen 18y ago
      > [I have] a love for snowboarding, walking in the snow, fireplaces, hot tea, and all that Ditto. The difference is that out here in the valley winter is a place up in the Sierra Nevadas that we visit when the December/January rain hits the bay area. The best part is that once we have had our fill of winter fun we drive back home :)
- mickt 18y ago
  Even walking on the esplanade on a serene calm winter's day when there's no-one else about can be very tranquil. Also, I find walking about Boston, even in weather that most people think of as bad, a good way to help me concentrate my thoughts. Bad weather's not a big deal, you just have to dress appropriately.
  - cowmoo 18y ago
    Esplanade is also good for running too during the winter. Because if you are not dressed appropriately for the weather (i.e., in your running shorts), you are essentially forced to run the whole esplanade to keep warm 'till you get home.

lsb 18y ago

Speaking of quality of life issues, I was thinking of moving to California, but they really need to fix that gay marriage ban.

pg 18y ago

Ideas are an industry. Universities employ tens if not hundreds of thousands of people in Boston. And while the quality of life in Boston could definitely be improved, the oldness of the city is one of the things that attracts me about it. Old things are rich and comforting. New ones can be somewhat bleak. Not just because old things have a patina. Old things are more human, because they tend to be smaller and handmade, instead of just extruded from a factory somewhere.

ivankirigin 18y ago
There is also a very good architectural argument that old cities make for better quality of life. If you're Houston or LA, you're built for cars. That makes for a worse experience than subways and walkways. The public parks in Boston are excellent. The Minute Man bike trail is unrivaled, as far as I'm concerned. There is a great feedback loop here too. People that like things like the Public Garden are more likely to demand changes keep the feeling. Even the Big Dig, while a bullshit waste of public resources, turns out to make the city much more pedestrian friendly. It largely emerged because the city was too old to retrofit a freeway system that could handle the capacity above ground.
- brlewis 18y ago
  The Big Dig made for a huge improvement. People who lived here in past years should see http://ourdoings.com/brlewis/2008-05-14 http://ourdoings.com/brlewis/2008-05-14
  - ivankirigin 18y ago
    That's quite striking. I agree that is has been pretty awesome, from what I can tell. I only moved to Boston right as it finished. There was inexcusable corruption and incompetence in the construction though. That puts of a taint on large municipal projects generally.
    - pg 18y ago
      The elevated highway it replaced was such a complete disaster that it's a net win to have it gone even with all the corruption. From what I've heard, though, the old highway was designed the way it was because of corruption too. The palpable aura of corruption in Boston probably doesn't help it as a tech hub. Corruption tends to yield low quality of life, because so much of the money that goes into the government goes to political supporters rather than into beneficial projects. I've noticed practically all very corrupt cities (Syracuse was a striking example) are economically backward, though it's hard to say which is cause and which is effect.

Agathos 18y ago

And then there's Kendall, which feels young, expensive, somewhat dilapidated, and miserable in the winter.

cowmoo 18y ago
Why do people like Kendall so much? Out of all the "squares" and neighborhoods in Boston, it sucks the most IMO. It's essentially the industrial park next to MIT. If people are so inclined to be in the "tech scene", live in any other neighborhood, Porter/Davis/Central/Beacon Hill/Brookline/JP and take the T to Kendall if you have to.

russell 18y ago

I lived in Cambridge for 6 years. It's cold. Cambridge didn't clear its sidewalks; it just let everything accumulate. I could tell when it was spring from the smell of 4 months of dog shit thawing. One December day I was walking across Cambridge Common, 10 degrees, the wind was blowing. I said, "to hell with this." The next month I moved to California and I've been warm ever since. :-)

jamie 18y ago
Funny- That's exactly my story as well. I've met quite a few Boston escapees out here in SF who all tell the same story. Loved Cambridge; hated the winter.