5 ms·

Ladies and gentlemen, introducing THE fugliest company of all time - ORACLE. The company that sued Android unsuccessfully, The company that fucked up JAVA, The

by neya 14y ago

Ladies and gentlemen, introducing THE fugliest company of all time - ORACLE. The company that sued Android unsuccessfully, The company that fucked up JAVA, The company that fucked up MySQL, The company that fucked up OpenOffice, The company that doesn't like anything good happening within the tech sector. I really miss those days when Oracle was highly respected and used to be a great workplace to be a part of.

colanderman 14y ago
Don't forget the OpenOffice.org clusterfuck.
- neya 14y ago
  Thanks, edited to include OO (how could I forget this one?).
webreac 14y ago
I started working in 1994 and Oracle was already the database provider that did not want to comply with standards (Sql92). They were already greedy.
- hnriot 14y ago
  SQL standards were and are a joke. Real app developers can't wait for the standards boards to ratify a syntax, they have to actually get on and build things. Oracle SQL is what it is, and if you don't like it use something else. The old dream of making the database a commodity and easily switching thanks to the SQL standards was always unrealistic. I doubt that Oracle "didn't want to comply with standards" but what is much more likely was that they had better things to do than pander the syntax nerds. Like making the database faster, more reliable, more secure etc. Like TPC benchmarks, SQL standards have never mattered to real developers.
  - smsm42 14y ago
    Unless you are a real developer that has to write app supporting 4 databases. And you discover that simplest and most common use cases like implementing paginated query results work radically different in each DB and sometimes it's like "oh, you really want to limit result set from 100K-row query and view it piece-by-piece and not all at once? We didn't think about it..."
  - webreac 14y ago
    In 1996, I was using RDB on VAX. The SQL book I was using to help me was a book about SQL92 (not at all about RDB) bought in a small non technical library. Almost all the examples were working perfectly on RDB (and on Microsoft Access). A few years latter, when I had to use Oracle, I was very disappointed to see all the silly differences in syntax.
stevoski 14y ago
Oracle fucked up Java? Not my view. Installing Java on Windows installed unwanted stuff for years during Sun's days. (Was it the Yahoo toolbar? I forget). Oracle, for all its faults, has actually managed to get the new versions of Java back on track. Sun seemed to be unable to get Java 7 out the door. Oracle did so, and is making good progress on Java 8.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- pasbesoin 14y ago
  I won't speak to Java itself, but I will say that -- crapware side-effects aside -- the Java SE installation process has actually improved since Oracle bought out Sun. Whether coincidence or causative, I don't know. It runs more quickly, and it only has a single instance of a single level of nested installers (for the JRE). A couple of years ago, the installation process had gotten simply bleep-awful, especially after they tacked JavaFX onto it, which installation seemed to take even longer than the installation of the rest of the SE package.
alayne 14y ago
You forgot Jenkins/Hudson too.
- cnlwsu 14y ago
  Was pretty painless for us to move from hudson to jenkins. I would recommend it.
dschiptsov 14y ago
How long it took to realize this? A decade?) Actually, RDBMS folks knew that for ages. There are basically two major types - ones who know nothing but Oracle, a vast majority, and those who have seen Informix or DB2. (SQL Server always considered as a tasteless joke). So, those small minority always knew what a bloatware Oracle is.
- parasubvert 14y ago
  I have seen Informix, DB2 (which one? there are four code bases), and Sybase. Oracle is still the #1 database for many reasons. Is it vastly superior? No. But it's not what I would consider bloatware anymore than another commercial RDBMS.
  - dschiptsov 14y ago
    I have 10+ years of being Informix DBA. Informix was a product of a wonderful team of engineers. It has small code base, and I mean it, proper design and engineering decisions and excellent set of features. The Dynamic Server Product was so good, that Informix was acquired by IBM. It was solid Linux version back in 90s, and works well on Solaris or even SCO. And you could configure almost everything you need in two simple text files and monitor and fine-tune almost everything on the go with just a telnet connection. Don't even tell me about Oracle.)
    - parasubvert 14y ago
      Informix was everything you say it was, I concur. Oracle you could fine tune nearly everything with a single text file through 8i. And even now that's still supported (the pfile vs spfile). Their recovery procedures are also bulletproof unlike the voodoo with say, Sybase ASE to this day.
      - dschiptsov 14y ago
        I once have resolved some stalled server issues on a machine located in a polar town Severomosk (via 2 sequential ssh connections, via terrible GPRS and one plain long-distance modem call - cu -l /dev/ttyS0 you know) from Katmandu, Nepal.) So, properly designed console tools matters.)
suyash 14y ago
You are totally confused and making irrational arguments here! Oracle is the most dominant and top player in the software industries improving the lives of programmers and helping business become more efficient and save unnecessary trouble. Oracle's improvement on Java platform and MySQL are commendable!
205guy 14y ago
I mostly agree with you, except Sun went under because it couldn't monetize (there's that word again) those free products (that and the server market tanked/changed on them). As long as Sun was making 50% margin on servers, they could fund all these projects/acquisitions. When they had to rely on this wonderful open-source market, they couldn't. Frankly, I think it's time to pay for software or software services again. I'd gladly pay $5 to $2o (depending on size or complexity) per year for quality, bug-free, ad-free software/services and its updates. And yes, I pay $20 to yahoo to get ad-free email that (hopefully) doesn't sell my information down the road. Is that even an option with gmail? When you think about it, the only person getting money for you being on the internet (with all the software required to do so) is your ISP--is that right? I'd prefer to pony up some money to get a better experience, but in most cases, that isn't even possible. The way I see it, there should be a single service, something like ninite, where I can give my CC once and manage all my subscriptions/updates. Then it would provide me the software by negociating with the author/owner for a painless, ad-free, crap-free binaries/subscription/whatever. Why is that still science fiction?
- neya 14y ago
  It's a beautiful concept my friend. I wonder why it hasn't become popular yet, though.

by neya 14y ago

colanderman 14y ago

Don't forget the OpenOffice.org clusterfuck.

neya 14y ago
Thanks, edited to include OO (how could I forget this one?).

webreac 14y ago

I started working in 1994 and Oracle was already the database provider that did not want to comply with standards (Sql92). They were already greedy.

hnriot 14y ago
SQL standards were and are a joke. Real app developers can't wait for the standards boards to ratify a syntax, they have to actually get on and build things. Oracle SQL is what it is, and if you don't like it use something else. The old dream of making the database a commodity and easily switching thanks to the SQL standards was always unrealistic. I doubt that Oracle "didn't want to comply with standards" but what is much more likely was that they had better things to do than pander the syntax nerds. Like making the database faster, more reliable, more secure etc. Like TPC benchmarks, SQL standards have never mattered to real developers.
- smsm42 14y ago
  Unless you are a real developer that has to write app supporting 4 databases. And you discover that simplest and most common use cases like implementing paginated query results work radically different in each DB and sometimes it's like "oh, you really want to limit result set from 100K-row query and view it piece-by-piece and not all at once? We didn't think about it..."
- webreac 14y ago
  In 1996, I was using RDB on VAX. The SQL book I was using to help me was a book about SQL92 (not at all about RDB) bought in a small non technical library. Almost all the examples were working perfectly on RDB (and on Microsoft Access). A few years latter, when I had to use Oracle, I was very disappointed to see all the silly differences in syntax.

stevoski 14y ago

Oracle fucked up Java? Not my view. Installing Java on Windows installed unwanted stuff for years during Sun's days. (Was it the Yahoo toolbar? I forget). Oracle, for all its faults, has actually managed to get the new versions of Java back on track. Sun seemed to be unable to get Java 7 out the door. Oracle did so, and is making good progress on Java 8.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
pasbesoin 14y ago
I won't speak to Java itself, but I will say that -- crapware side-effects aside -- the Java SE installation process has actually improved since Oracle bought out Sun. Whether coincidence or causative, I don't know. It runs more quickly, and it only has a single instance of a single level of nested installers (for the JRE). A couple of years ago, the installation process had gotten simply bleep-awful, especially after they tacked JavaFX onto it, which installation seemed to take even longer than the installation of the rest of the SE package.

alayne 14y ago

You forgot Jenkins/Hudson too.

cnlwsu 14y ago
Was pretty painless for us to move from hudson to jenkins. I would recommend it.

dschiptsov 14y ago

How long it took to realize this? A decade?) Actually, RDBMS folks knew that for ages. There are basically two major types - ones who know nothing but Oracle, a vast majority, and those who have seen Informix or DB2. (SQL Server always considered as a tasteless joke). So, those small minority always knew what a bloatware Oracle is.

parasubvert 14y ago
I have seen Informix, DB2 (which one? there are four code bases), and Sybase. Oracle is still the #1 database for many reasons. Is it vastly superior? No. But it's not what I would consider bloatware anymore than another commercial RDBMS.
- dschiptsov 14y ago
  I have 10+ years of being Informix DBA. Informix was a product of a wonderful team of engineers. It has small code base, and I mean it, proper design and engineering decisions and excellent set of features. The Dynamic Server Product was so good, that Informix was acquired by IBM. It was solid Linux version back in 90s, and works well on Solaris or even SCO. And you could configure almost everything you need in two simple text files and monitor and fine-tune almost everything on the go with just a telnet connection. Don't even tell me about Oracle.)
  - parasubvert 14y ago
    Informix was everything you say it was, I concur. Oracle you could fine tune nearly everything with a single text file through 8i. And even now that's still supported (the pfile vs spfile). Their recovery procedures are also bulletproof unlike the voodoo with say, Sybase ASE to this day.
    - dschiptsov 14y ago
      I once have resolved some stalled server issues on a machine located in a polar town Severomosk (via 2 sequential ssh connections, via terrible GPRS and one plain long-distance modem call - cu -l /dev/ttyS0 you know) from Katmandu, Nepal.) So, properly designed console tools matters.)

suyash 14y ago

You are totally confused and making irrational arguments here! Oracle is the most dominant and top player in the software industries improving the lives of programmers and helping business become more efficient and save unnecessary trouble. Oracle's improvement on Java platform and MySQL are commendable!

205guy 14y ago

I mostly agree with you, except Sun went under because it couldn't monetize (there's that word again) those free products (that and the server market tanked/changed on them). As long as Sun was making 50% margin on servers, they could fund all these projects/acquisitions. When they had to rely on this wonderful open-source market, they couldn't. Frankly, I think it's time to pay for software or software services again. I'd gladly pay $5 to $2o (depending on size or complexity) per year for quality, bug-free, ad-free software/services and its updates. And yes, I pay $20 to yahoo to get ad-free email that (hopefully) doesn't sell my information down the road. Is that even an option with gmail? When you think about it, the only person getting money for you being on the internet (with all the software required to do so) is your ISP--is that right? I'd prefer to pony up some money to get a better experience, but in most cases, that isn't even possible. The way I see it, there should be a single service, something like ninite, where I can give my CC once and manage all my subscriptions/updates. Then it would provide me the software by negociating with the author/owner for a painless, ad-free, crap-free binaries/subscription/whatever. Why is that still science fiction?

neya 14y ago
It's a beautiful concept my friend. I wonder why it hasn't become popular yet, though.