4 ms·

I fail to understand how that's the Windows philosophy. I've used Windows almost exclusively since I've started using computers and I don't recall that being th

by talmand 14y ago

I fail to understand how that's the Windows philosophy. I've used Windows almost exclusively since I've started using computers and I don't recall that being the norm for quite some time. Even today I would say it's not really the norm simply because most people will not run into this on a regular basis. I would say that's the philosophy of business in general, especially considering the article is about Oracle's bad behavior. They target Windows simply because of sheer numbers which would possibly give them a good return on investment. The main reason you don't see that behavior on Linux, yet, is that it's not worth the time for these businesses. If they ever change their mind I guarantee that will be the day you'll start to see this type of thing.

sixbrx 14y ago
> The main reason you don't see that behavior on Linux, > yet, is that it's not worth the time for these businesses I think it's rather that almost all Linux software is either open source or installed through a package manager (usually both). Open source developers would fork and remove any such behavior if the program is at all worth dealing with. While package managers would not be likely to include such annoying software to begin with.
- TeMPOraL 14y ago
  If ever Linux gets a similar userbase as Windows, I guarantee you there will be tons of crapware for it as well. Open source developers can do exactly nothing if users will want to download something from the Web and crapware makers make it extra easy and convenient to them. And if you say that this won't happen, because software will still be installed through a package manager than well... maybe that's (one of the reasons) why Linux doesn't have a similar non-tech-savvy userbase as Windows.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    Yep, and already we have Steam, for example. While an excellent gaming platform, is also Adware by default, and displays popups with special offers and new games on sale.
    - csense 14y ago
      As much as I hate Steam, Steam coming to Linux is actually a Good Thing. One of the main reasons it took me many years to switch to Linux was the lack of games. Many others felt the same way. If I was Steam, I'd use the sales to customers whose primary platform is Linux to fund the porting of additional games, either through grants/incentives to developers, patching of Wine, or both. The more acceptable Linux becomes as a viable alternative for gamers, the stronger the uptake of desktop Linux will be.
- talmand 14y ago
  Well, Windows has open source software as well so those positives apply for it as well. As for package managers, money talks. I would have said the same thing about someone sliding in crapware with a Java update some years ago.
nodata 14y ago
You don't remember Gator? or that smiley thing?
- talmand 14y ago
  Nope. Like I said I don't recall much of these shenanigans. Although I'm fully willing to admit that may just be my experience.
jvzr 14y ago
I've stopped using a Windows PC in 2004, and as far as I remember this was already pretty common at the time. I'm taking a shot in the dark here, but I remember Nero or similar software coming with such a crap too. We, geeks and nerds, quickly get into our habits to uncheck the checkboxes and all. But workaround have developed, such as needing to check a box to not install the bundled crapware.
- laumars 14y ago
  Going even further back: RealPlayer was synonymous this this kind of behaviour. Yet the Linux client never installed such crap. In my opinion, package managers are the single greatest innovation to happen to computer usability since the WIMP paradigm.
  - talmand 14y ago
    So, a few examples have come forward but I don't see a trend that suggests that using Windows on a daily basis is just an ever annoying adventure in avoiding crapware. So far the examples provided I'm familiar with but for the most part avoided. Likely maybe because of the crapware but also just as likely I didn't want/need/like the software being mentioned.
    - laumars 14y ago
      You want more examples then? * iTunes installing several start up processes and Quicktime players * printer drivers CDs installing all manner of crapware * OEM bloatware * Winamp installer recommends all sorts of sponsored crap * Adobe's terrible update system (ok, not really what we're discussing here, but i resent having to reboot my entire OS just for an update to a PDF viewer) * and the amount of programs that install start up processes just to check for updates is depressing * Even Microsoft themselves are guilty of pushing crapware (eg Bing seach bars) in Windows update ....and that's just off the top of my head. I know this sounds terribly negative but it's fair to say that Windows' current method for allowing developer to run rampant with 3rd party installers is sub par by today's standards. And I think even Microsoft realise this because they're now switching to a package manager with online repositories with Win8. I just hope that their main focus isn't to fleece the developers like Apple do.

by talmand 14y ago

sixbrx 14y ago

> The main reason you don't see that behavior on Linux, > yet, is that it's not worth the time for these businesses I think it's rather that almost all Linux software is either open source or installed through a package manager (usually both). Open source developers would fork and remove any such behavior if the program is at all worth dealing with. While package managers would not be likely to include such annoying software to begin with.

TeMPOraL 14y ago
If ever Linux gets a similar userbase as Windows, I guarantee you there will be tons of crapware for it as well. Open source developers can do exactly nothing if users will want to download something from the Web and crapware makers make it extra easy and convenient to them. And if you say that this won't happen, because software will still be installed through a package manager than well... maybe that's (one of the reasons) why Linux doesn't have a similar non-tech-savvy userbase as Windows.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  Yep, and already we have Steam, for example. While an excellent gaming platform, is also Adware by default, and displays popups with special offers and new games on sale.
  - csense 14y ago
    As much as I hate Steam, Steam coming to Linux is actually a Good Thing. One of the main reasons it took me many years to switch to Linux was the lack of games. Many others felt the same way. If I was Steam, I'd use the sales to customers whose primary platform is Linux to fund the porting of additional games, either through grants/incentives to developers, patching of Wine, or both. The more acceptable Linux becomes as a viable alternative for gamers, the stronger the uptake of desktop Linux will be.
talmand 14y ago
Well, Windows has open source software as well so those positives apply for it as well. As for package managers, money talks. I would have said the same thing about someone sliding in crapware with a Java update some years ago.

nodata 14y ago

You don't remember Gator? or that smiley thing?

talmand 14y ago
Nope. Like I said I don't recall much of these shenanigans. Although I'm fully willing to admit that may just be my experience.

jvzr 14y ago

I've stopped using a Windows PC in 2004, and as far as I remember this was already pretty common at the time. I'm taking a shot in the dark here, but I remember Nero or similar software coming with such a crap too. We, geeks and nerds, quickly get into our habits to uncheck the checkboxes and all. But workaround have developed, such as needing to check a box to not install the bundled crapware.

laumars 14y ago
Going even further back: RealPlayer was synonymous this this kind of behaviour. Yet the Linux client never installed such crap. In my opinion, package managers are the single greatest innovation to happen to computer usability since the WIMP paradigm.
- talmand 14y ago
  So, a few examples have come forward but I don't see a trend that suggests that using Windows on a daily basis is just an ever annoying adventure in avoiding crapware. So far the examples provided I'm familiar with but for the most part avoided. Likely maybe because of the crapware but also just as likely I didn't want/need/like the software being mentioned.
  - laumars 14y ago
    You want more examples then? * iTunes installing several start up processes and Quicktime players * printer drivers CDs installing all manner of crapware * OEM bloatware * Winamp installer recommends all sorts of sponsored crap * Adobe's terrible update system (ok, not really what we're discussing here, but i resent having to reboot my entire OS just for an update to a PDF viewer) * and the amount of programs that install start up processes just to check for updates is depressing * Even Microsoft themselves are guilty of pushing crapware (eg Bing seach bars) in Windows update ....and that's just off the top of my head. I know this sounds terribly negative but it's fair to say that Windows' current method for allowing developer to run rampant with 3rd party installers is sub par by today's standards. And I think even Microsoft realise this because they're now switching to a package manager with online repositories with Win8. I just hope that their main focus isn't to fleece the developers like Apple do.