4 ms·

Just to tell my experiences on this, I was forced to install the crapware last week. There was no way for me to uncheck or opt out of the checkbox. I have a ma

Just to tell my experiences on this, I was forced to install the crapware last week. There was no way for me to uncheck or opt out of the checkbox. I have a machines which I connect to that do not have any mouse connected. I have no problem in navigating systems with a keyboard and can run through installers probably quicker than most people with a mouse can, but when this dialog popped up for me, I was stumped for about 10 minutes. I employed every shortcut in my keyboard-shortcut arsenal and fell short. I genuinely felt like this was not just some programming mistake (because the "Next" control was already highlighted waiting for me to hit Enter). It is a dark pattern that was purposefully introduced to their installer to make it impossible for users like me to opt-out of their installer. A consequence of their deception was that they did get a dozen installs from me, but my dislike for Oracle increased tenfold, and in a quiet-protest, I'll make damned sure that I suggest any alternative to an Oracle product when I have reasonable alternatives (Without cutting off my nose to spite my face).

corresation 14y ago
It absolutely wasn't a mistake. Most legitimate software makes the descriptive text for a checkbox (the label) a trigger for the checkbox. The Ask Toolbar installer option, however, disables this, forcing you to specifically target the checkbox itself. It is incredibly scummy, and worse it actually encourages Oracle to create insecure software -- at least in the short term -- because each fix is another spin of the wheel.
- iuguy 14y ago
  That's weird, I thought Oracle have been making insecure software for decades and this was just business as usual for them.
  - hnriot 14y ago
    clearly, you haven't been paying attention.
- talmand 14y ago
  There are examples of legitimate software failing in this aspect as well. Not to suggest that Oracle does not do this on purpose for nefarious reasons or that other software is being scummy somehow. I don't work at Oracle so I can't say if it's intentional or just part of the problem that's more common then you think.
- logic 14y ago
  Disabled to make automation (corporate installations) difficult, perhaps? I find it mind-boggling that people actually put up with (or defend) user-unfriendly behavior like this.
  - skymt 14y ago
    Oracle explicitly supports automated corporate deployment, albeit in a roundabout way. http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/deployment/deployment-guide/install-msi.html http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/deploy...
  - FredFredrickson 14y ago
    The only reason why anyone would defend these practices is that presumably, if the company did not monetize their software in this way, the software couldn't continue to be developed. In Oracle's case, this seems absurd. The money they make from toolbar installations couldn't possibly be very high, could it?
- drzaiusapelord 14y ago
  How secure are these toolbars? It seems like end users are getting reamed twice. Once by just using java and again by increasing their vulnerability profile with toolbars.
halviti 14y ago
I employed every shortcut in my keyboard-shortcut arsenal and fell short. One good one to remember is ALT+Left Shift+NumLock Then you can use your keypad as a mouse. / and - toggle which mouse button 5 is.
- kibwen 14y ago
  How incredibly obscure! Thanks a ton for this.
- jakub_g 14y ago
  Thanks for the shortcut! For those of you struggling to enable it under WinXP, you may need to choose "Settings" first in the popup dialog and tick (with the spacebar) "Use MouseKeys". If you happened to have multiple keyboards installed (e.g. running English Windows + your local kbd settings), LEFT ALT + SHIFT additionally switches between kbd layouts as a bonus, so be sure to disable this shortcut in Control Panel > Regional and Language Options > Languages tab > click Details > click Key Settings.
- error54 14y ago
  Also, pressing shift 5 times is an easy way to enable sticky keys in Windows.
  - smcl 14y ago
    I have accidentally enabled this a million times and I've no idea what it does other than messing up my keyboard.
    - FredFredrickson 14y ago
      It's an accessibility feature. If you don't have the dexterity to hold keys down yourself, you can enable sticky keys and (if I remember correctly) it will make certain keys act as toggles so you don't have to do finger-yoga to hit certain key combinations.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
lawnchair_larry 14y ago
Monetizing software is a hard problem. Oracle is just trying to do good in a scummy space. Most users choose to install Java, so obviously they want it. The above post was satire in reference to Y Combinator staff's reaction to this thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5092711 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5092711
- Florin_Andrei 14y ago
  > Oracle is just trying to do good You mean they're trying to do well.
Breakthrough 14y ago
I just formatted & had to reinstall Java today, out of curiousity I used the offline installer instead... No toolbar bundled with it, didn't even give me the option to install it. http://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp http://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp
dsl 14y ago
Don't put all the blame on Oracle. Follow the money: Oracle distributes Ask Toolbar Ask Toolbar drives searches to Ask.com Ask.com displays ads from its parent, IAC IAC is the largest third-party distributor of Google ads

corresation 14y ago

It absolutely wasn't a mistake. Most legitimate software makes the descriptive text for a checkbox (the label) a trigger for the checkbox. The Ask Toolbar installer option, however, disables this, forcing you to specifically target the checkbox itself. It is incredibly scummy, and worse it actually encourages Oracle to create insecure software -- at least in the short term -- because each fix is another spin of the wheel.

iuguy 14y ago
That's weird, I thought Oracle have been making insecure software for decades and this was just business as usual for them.
- hnriot 14y ago
  clearly, you haven't been paying attention.
talmand 14y ago
There are examples of legitimate software failing in this aspect as well. Not to suggest that Oracle does not do this on purpose for nefarious reasons or that other software is being scummy somehow. I don't work at Oracle so I can't say if it's intentional or just part of the problem that's more common then you think.
logic 14y ago
Disabled to make automation (corporate installations) difficult, perhaps? I find it mind-boggling that people actually put up with (or defend) user-unfriendly behavior like this.
- skymt 14y ago
  Oracle explicitly supports automated corporate deployment, albeit in a roundabout way. http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/deployment/deployment-guide/install-msi.html http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/deploy...
- FredFredrickson 14y ago
  The only reason why anyone would defend these practices is that presumably, if the company did not monetize their software in this way, the software couldn't continue to be developed. In Oracle's case, this seems absurd. The money they make from toolbar installations couldn't possibly be very high, could it?
drzaiusapelord 14y ago
How secure are these toolbars? It seems like end users are getting reamed twice. Once by just using java and again by increasing their vulnerability profile with toolbars.

halviti 14y ago

I employed every shortcut in my keyboard-shortcut arsenal and fell short. One good one to remember is ALT+Left Shift+NumLock Then you can use your keypad as a mouse. / and - toggle which mouse button 5 is.

kibwen 14y ago
How incredibly obscure! Thanks a ton for this.
jakub_g 14y ago
Thanks for the shortcut! For those of you struggling to enable it under WinXP, you may need to choose "Settings" first in the popup dialog and tick (with the spacebar) "Use MouseKeys". If you happened to have multiple keyboards installed (e.g. running English Windows + your local kbd settings), LEFT ALT + SHIFT additionally switches between kbd layouts as a bonus, so be sure to disable this shortcut in Control Panel > Regional and Language Options > Languages tab > click Details > click Key Settings.
error54 14y ago
Also, pressing shift 5 times is an easy way to enable sticky keys in Windows.
- smcl 14y ago
  I have accidentally enabled this a million times and I've no idea what it does other than messing up my keyboard.
  - FredFredrickson 14y ago
    It's an accessibility feature. If you don't have the dexterity to hold keys down yourself, you can enable sticky keys and (if I remember correctly) it will make certain keys act as toggles so you don't have to do finger-yoga to hit certain key combinations.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

lawnchair_larry 14y ago

Monetizing software is a hard problem. Oracle is just trying to do good in a scummy space. Most users choose to install Java, so obviously they want it. The above post was satire in reference to Y Combinator staff's reaction to this thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5092711 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5092711

Florin_Andrei 14y ago
> Oracle is just trying to do good You mean they're trying to do well.

Breakthrough 14y ago

I just formatted & had to reinstall Java today, out of curiousity I used the offline installer instead... No toolbar bundled with it, didn't even give me the option to install it. http://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp http://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp

dsl 14y ago

Don't put all the blame on Oracle. Follow the money: Oracle distributes Ask Toolbar Ask Toolbar drives searches to Ask.com Ask.com displays ads from its parent, IAC IAC is the largest third-party distributor of Google ads