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Maybe some forever projects are just huge time sinks with a plainly delusional background. But how to tell? I've been working on and off on my forever project

by Udo 14y ago

Maybe some forever projects are just huge time sinks with a plainly delusional background. But how to tell? I've been working on and off on my forever project for about 4 years now. It's cursed. I pulled the plug repeatedly for different reasons: First time I started developing it, after a few months, a high-profile/highly-funded Open Source project with exactly the same features announced itself. I didn't want to spend time on something with so famous a competitor, it just didn't seem reasonable to duplicate/waste effort like that. If I'm honest, I was also kind of pissed that I was having such a hard time convincing people my thing was worthwhile, and then those guys come along and suddenly everyone acts like it's the most groundbreaking thing ever! Second time, I started up again when the famous Open Source project kept drifting aimlessly somewhere between success and failure with no clear vision. I even enrolled in nReduce, mostly to keep me on schedule and make contact with like-minded developers. Then my mother got sick and died last year, that was the end of the project right then and there as I wasn't able to continue at that time. Maybe her death should have driven me even harder to develop this project, but the sad fact is that I just disintegrated unproductively. Now I have to ask myself if I should ever continue this project. On the one hand it's not that ambitious, so it won't really take forever. On the other hand, there is mounting evidence that I won't be able to pull this off (considering the two attempts before). Wouldn't my time be better spent to start something completely new? Difficult to say because that one project is still on my mind.

jdrake3 14y ago
Why not fork the OS one? And sometimes 3rd time's a charm...
Udo 14y ago
jdrake, you're hellbanned, so I can't answer you directly. > Why not fork the OS one? And sometimes 3rd time's a charm... It's not about the technology. I think mine works better and they made some choices that I wouldn't want to inherit. I think their technology and protocol choices are part of what holds them back. I believe I can do it better, and for a time there I did. Anyway, that's not the point. The point is finding out if I'm crazy to attempt this again or not. Sometimes you really can't tell whether you're Linux or Losethos.
- jdrake3 14y ago
  Interesting to note, wonder how I ended up in purgatory... I think the fact that there is a version, however impoverished, of your idea already out in the wild indicates that you're not crazy.
Joeboy 14y ago
I'm going to guess that your forever project is a distributed social network. I think a lot of people (me included) are in a similar position. The challenges are really big, and most of us (me included) get disheartened at some point. I think at some point Facebook will drop the ball and something else will get to pick up the pieces. I guess that will be whoever had the stamina and resources to keep iterating.
- Udo 14y ago
  > I think at some point Facebook will drop the ball and something else will get to pick up the pieces. I don't want to push this thread off-topic but I believe at some point Facebook, Google and others will have to open up their flood gates and allow information between them to be exchanged. I also think an open source project could nudge them in that general direction, especially when it gives people the option to just install it on their own servers like they would Wordpress or any other web app. > I guess that will be whoever had the stamina and resources to keep iterating. There must be literally thousands of those projects out there by now. Which brings me back to my original point: is it madness to try? Is a forever project that failed two times before even viable? At what point do you take a hint from the universe? How do you judge your own efforts, especially when nobody else cares about your work?
  - graue 14y ago
    This is my Forever Project too. > There must be literally thousands of those projects out there by now. Which brings me back to my original point: is it madness to try? Here's what I think: Don't blindly start Distributed Social Network Number 1,001. But pick 5 or 10 existing ones that look promising. Try them all. What's good about each one? What sucks? Then, if one seems like a solid foundation, contribute and build on it. If they all seem too deeply flawed, learn from their innovations and mistakes and join others who are also learning. Explore other possibilities. I was very excited about Tent.io, and wrote a small app for it, but after a few months began to see serious problems with its design. For now the Forever Project is on hold so I can build a music player. In a month or so I'll probably start thinking about what's next. My email's in my profile if either of you want to continue the conversation (or, if anyone reading has thoughts on this and wants to talk).
SeppoErviala 14y ago
It's an useless effort to build a new free operating system kernel now that GNU Hurd is just around the corner. What chance you have to compete with those MIT hackers? Besides, monolithic kernels are so 80s. --- Even if you're building something that someone famous is building they may still lack commitment or vision to get it finished properly. Anyway, if you build it you will at least get it off your mind and get the feeling of accomplishment.
snogglethorpe 14y ago
You can avoid this sort of shock/heart-ache by simply picking some project that has tons of really obvious and powerful competition from the get-go. Since there's no way you can ever win, the pressure's off, and it's simply your fun little project... :]
- graue 14y ago
  Love this idea. This must be what drives all the people writing toy scripting languages, like _why's Potion[1] or TJ Holowaychuk's Luna[2]. Or the zillions of tiny Scheme implementations out there. [1]: https://github.com/fogus/potion https://github.com/fogus/potion [2]: https://github.com/luna/luna https://github.com/luna/luna

by Udo 14y ago

jdrake3 14y ago

Why not fork the OS one? And sometimes 3rd time's a charm...

Udo 14y ago

jdrake, you're hellbanned, so I can't answer you directly. > Why not fork the OS one? And sometimes 3rd time's a charm... It's not about the technology. I think mine works better and they made some choices that I wouldn't want to inherit. I think their technology and protocol choices are part of what holds them back. I believe I can do it better, and for a time there I did. Anyway, that's not the point. The point is finding out if I'm crazy to attempt this again or not. Sometimes you really can't tell whether you're Linux or Losethos.

jdrake3 14y ago
Interesting to note, wonder how I ended up in purgatory... I think the fact that there is a version, however impoverished, of your idea already out in the wild indicates that you're not crazy.

Joeboy 14y ago

I'm going to guess that your forever project is a distributed social network. I think a lot of people (me included) are in a similar position. The challenges are really big, and most of us (me included) get disheartened at some point. I think at some point Facebook will drop the ball and something else will get to pick up the pieces. I guess that will be whoever had the stamina and resources to keep iterating.

Udo 14y ago
> I think at some point Facebook will drop the ball and something else will get to pick up the pieces. I don't want to push this thread off-topic but I believe at some point Facebook, Google and others will have to open up their flood gates and allow information between them to be exchanged. I also think an open source project could nudge them in that general direction, especially when it gives people the option to just install it on their own servers like they would Wordpress or any other web app. > I guess that will be whoever had the stamina and resources to keep iterating. There must be literally thousands of those projects out there by now. Which brings me back to my original point: is it madness to try? Is a forever project that failed two times before even viable? At what point do you take a hint from the universe? How do you judge your own efforts, especially when nobody else cares about your work?
- graue 14y ago
  This is my Forever Project too. > There must be literally thousands of those projects out there by now. Which brings me back to my original point: is it madness to try? Here's what I think: Don't blindly start Distributed Social Network Number 1,001. But pick 5 or 10 existing ones that look promising. Try them all. What's good about each one? What sucks? Then, if one seems like a solid foundation, contribute and build on it. If they all seem too deeply flawed, learn from their innovations and mistakes and join others who are also learning. Explore other possibilities. I was very excited about Tent.io, and wrote a small app for it, but after a few months began to see serious problems with its design. For now the Forever Project is on hold so I can build a music player. In a month or so I'll probably start thinking about what's next. My email's in my profile if either of you want to continue the conversation (or, if anyone reading has thoughts on this and wants to talk).

SeppoErviala 14y ago

It's an useless effort to build a new free operating system kernel now that GNU Hurd is just around the corner. What chance you have to compete with those MIT hackers? Besides, monolithic kernels are so 80s. --- Even if you're building something that someone famous is building they may still lack commitment or vision to get it finished properly. Anyway, if you build it you will at least get it off your mind and get the feeling of accomplishment.

snogglethorpe 14y ago

You can avoid this sort of shock/heart-ache by simply picking some project that has tons of really obvious and powerful competition from the get-go. Since there's no way you can ever win, the pressure's off, and it's simply your fun little project... :]

graue 14y ago
Love this idea. This must be what drives all the people writing toy scripting languages, like _why's Potion[1] or TJ Holowaychuk's Luna[2]. Or the zillions of tiny Scheme implementations out there. [1]: https://github.com/fogus/potion https://github.com/fogus/potion [2]: https://github.com/luna/luna https://github.com/luna/luna