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Sigh. We know that Ortiz asked for disproportionate penalties and piled-on charges to try to force a plea bargain. We know that even if all the Government's a

Sigh. We know that Ortiz asked for disproportionate penalties and piled-on charges to try to force a plea bargain. We know that even if all the Government's assertions are true, the alleged crime was quite minor, causing neither monetary harm nor physical harm to any person or entity, and yet the prosecutor was seeking decades in Federal prison for punishment. (The idea that she was seeking less punishment has no evidence behind it, and if were true, she wouldn't have needed to add nine extra felony charges a few months ago.) All those things are undisputed fact, and they are enough, in the eyes of many, to represent prosecutorial misconduct.

tsotha 14y ago
>We know that Ortiz asked for disproportionate penalties and piled-on charges to try to force a plea bargain. That's how every prosecution works. It's not misconduct. It should be, but it's not.
- VSerge 14y ago
  If it should be misconduct, then it is. And if it is misconduct, it certainly isn't serving justice, which founding principle is "innocent until proven guilty", and not "innocent until threatened enough to admit whatever guilt seems like a lesser evil". This btw goes for Ortiz et al. too. However, since their pressure in Aaron Schwartz case is pretty well documented, and since they refuse to show the slightest hint of regret, their share of guilt in this tragic suicide is pretty clear. What's more, the continued threat that their twisting of the due process of justice represents must be stopped. And this should be a signal for the DOJ to review its prosecuting policies in depth, and remember justice in general a little more, as opposed to political maneuvering.
  - tsotha 14y ago
    I don't think there's any reason to single out Ortiz. She's doing what federal prosecutors do. What all federal prosecutors do. People want to blame prosecutors, but the real problem here is Congress (as usual). Too many things are illegal under federal law. The justice system would take half the budget and we'd all spend half our time on jury duty if we wanted to take every single illegal act to trial. The only way out for the judiciary is to bully people into accepting plea bargains so only a tiny percentage of cases go to trial. If everyone refused to take a plea the entire system would grind to a halt. Were I in charge plea bargains would be illegal. That would remove the incentive to throw the book at every minor criminal, and if Congress can't allocate enough money to prosecute a crime it's not important enough to be on the books.
- gpvos 14y ago
  More important than firing Ortiz is reforming the American justice system. But because that is very hard, maybe firing Ortiz sends a signal that at least accelerates that a little.
tveita 14y ago
> the prosecutor was seeking decades in Federal prison for punishment. (The idea that she was seeking less punishment has no evidence behind it, and if were true, she wouldn't have needed to add nine extra felony charges a few months ago.) On the contrary, the idea that they were seeking decades in prison has no evidence behind it, and contradicts the statements Ortiz and others have made. As long as people are still spreading factoids like this, I think larrys comment is spot on.

tsotha 14y ago

>We know that Ortiz asked for disproportionate penalties and piled-on charges to try to force a plea bargain. That's how every prosecution works. It's not misconduct. It should be, but it's not.

VSerge 14y ago
If it should be misconduct, then it is. And if it is misconduct, it certainly isn't serving justice, which founding principle is "innocent until proven guilty", and not "innocent until threatened enough to admit whatever guilt seems like a lesser evil". This btw goes for Ortiz et al. too. However, since their pressure in Aaron Schwartz case is pretty well documented, and since they refuse to show the slightest hint of regret, their share of guilt in this tragic suicide is pretty clear. What's more, the continued threat that their twisting of the due process of justice represents must be stopped. And this should be a signal for the DOJ to review its prosecuting policies in depth, and remember justice in general a little more, as opposed to political maneuvering.
- tsotha 14y ago
  I don't think there's any reason to single out Ortiz. She's doing what federal prosecutors do. What all federal prosecutors do. People want to blame prosecutors, but the real problem here is Congress (as usual). Too many things are illegal under federal law. The justice system would take half the budget and we'd all spend half our time on jury duty if we wanted to take every single illegal act to trial. The only way out for the judiciary is to bully people into accepting plea bargains so only a tiny percentage of cases go to trial. If everyone refused to take a plea the entire system would grind to a halt. Were I in charge plea bargains would be illegal. That would remove the incentive to throw the book at every minor criminal, and if Congress can't allocate enough money to prosecute a crime it's not important enough to be on the books.
gpvos 14y ago
More important than firing Ortiz is reforming the American justice system. But because that is very hard, maybe firing Ortiz sends a signal that at least accelerates that a little.

tveita 14y ago

> the prosecutor was seeking decades in Federal prison for punishment. (The idea that she was seeking less punishment has no evidence behind it, and if were true, she wouldn't have needed to add nine extra felony charges a few months ago.) On the contrary, the idea that they were seeking decades in prison has no evidence behind it, and contradicts the statements Ortiz and others have made. As long as people are still spreading factoids like this, I think larrys comment is spot on.