4 ms·

I really don't get the idea of young women getting drunk in bars. Or worse, going home with men they met that evening. Do they really expect to not be raped? T

by munin 14y ago

I really don't get the idea of young women getting drunk in bars. Or worse, going home with men they met that evening. Do they really expect to not be raped? These women are victims of something very cruel. Someone needs to pay for that transgression. However, they hold signifigant responsibility for having allowed to be raped. Unless she was completely unconcious, she, at some point, became an active participant -- and the enable -- in the sequence of events that led to her rape. I talk to my kids about these issues whenever they come up. The message is exactly as I stated above: if you don't want to get raped, don't go out, stay at home, and wear clothes that cover your legs, shoulders, and forearms. In this day and age being stupid can seriously affect the rest of your life and end careers. It's not something to take lightly. At one point we have to assume responsibility for our actions. (seriously, how does victim blaming bullshit like this not get buried instantly)

stefantalpalaru 14y ago
So blaming victims is not OK, no matter what, but comparing nude photo leaks with rape is totally cool?
robomartin 14y ago
Well, I knew I was going to take rounds. POINTING OUT THAT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS AN IMPORTANT HABIT OR VIRTUE IS NOT, IN ANY IMAGINABLE WAY, AND EXPRESSION OF APPROVAL FOR SOMEONE BECOMING A VICTIM. THE TWO ARE SEPARABLE. In most parts of the world, if I walk into certain neighborhoods while wearing a sign that openly insults a large segment of the ethnic population in that neighborhood it is highly likely that I will suffer serious harm or even be killed. Such an attack on my person is and will always be a despicable crime. However, I had a choice to make and it was my action that provoked the attack. And, while I would not, for even a second, excuse or justify the attack on my person, in retrospect an intelligent person can only conclude that the decision was the catalyst and it was an absolutely moronic decision at that. Now, you and other can go on believing that you are free to act as you wish, do and say as you want and that there should be no consequences to your actions. And that's fine. Go ahead and do it. Let's see how long you last. What I am talking about here isn't some kind of a higher moral ground. This is about the real world. Reality. And reality works like this: You do something stupid and you pay the consequences. Plain, simple, cruel and very fucking real. The new way of thinking seems to be that you ought to be able to be a complete moron and not suffer any consequences for your actions. Nice thought. Not reality. AGAIN: NONE OF THIS IS TO SAY THAT A CRIME COMMITTED AGAINST SOMEONE MAKING A DUMB MOVE IS EXCUSABLE. IT IS NOT. BUT IT IS OK TO LOOK AT THAT PERSON AND SAY: "YOU MORON. WHAT DID YOU EXPECT WOULD HAPPEN?" Yes, I am yelling at you. Snap out of it. Reality, in most parts of the world, is as I have painted it. So if you have a little girl: Would you tell your little girl to go ahead and allow nude pictures of herself to be taken? And then, would you say: "Don't worry, they are not going to be published all over the internet no matter what". Right
- eric_cc 14y ago
  Amen. It REALLY IS possible to be a dumbass and a victim at the same time. Many (definitely not all) of these women are clearly both. And now they may cash in on their poor life choices.
  - bruceboughton 14y ago
    I'm not sure the OP would support your twisting of his opinion.
- bostonpete 14y ago
  The problem is that even raising the point (at least in the way you did) that a victim whose only fault was being too trusting when she was young and stupid (imagine!) is partially at fault comes across as callous and serves no purpose. It's obvious she screwed up and undoubtedly regrets it. Also, it's obvious to anyone who reads the story that she should have been more careful. So what's the point of making these observations? At best you may get a few head nods, but at worst you come across sounding a lot like the guy who says "I know she got raped, but hey, she was wearing a short skirt...".
  - robomartin 14y ago
    I did not create a nexus of justification between the dumb move and the crime. Nowhere did I say something like that. Nowhere. And nowhere did I bring-up horrible crimes such as rape. Other's made that up. Not me. I focused on this issue of young one's taking compromising videos or photos of themselves and then crying foul when, through twists and turns, they end-up posted online to cause them grief. Let's not go one millimeter past that. I did not say anything whatsoever that has anything to do with rape or any other crime. That's it. Every situation is different. I know nothing about the details of the case. For all I know the boyfriend took pictures while she was sleeping. How could she be blamed for that? If that were the case though, he would have to be charged criminally as well. I think what I said was that one has to assume that anything you say or do today might be seen by a million people. So long as you are comfortable with that outcome, then, by all means, do as you please. If you are not, then don't. With regards to this serving no purpose. Well, if only one kid reads this and thinks twice before posting a dumb picture on Facebook or something of that nature the outcome is good.
mhurron 14y ago
> Do they really expect to not be raped? > responsibility for having allowed to be raped. That's the way you're going with it? It was their own damn fault? They were asking for it? They got drunk (yes it was stupid), had a one night stand (yes, stupid when drunk), so they totally had rape and humiliation coming to them (non-sequitur). > if you don't want to get raped, don't go out, stay at home, and wear clothes that cover your legs, shoulders, and forearms Oggie boggie, fear everyone. Hate to break it to you dumbass, but dressing provocatively doesn't have anything to do with it. You can be raped on the street in your business casual cloths. You can be raped at home without going out. You can be raped stopping for gas. Women aren't asking for it, they don't do anything that allows it, they shouldn't ever expect it. > (seriously, how does victim blaming bullshit like this not get buried instantly) I don't know, why hasn't your post been relegated to oblivion.
- XFrequentist 14y ago
  I don't understand how you possibly missed the sarcasm (it's literally a line-by-line restatement of the grandparent), especially given that you quoted the final part. What on earth did you interpret that to mean?

by munin 14y ago

stefantalpalaru 14y ago

So blaming victims is not OK, no matter what, but comparing nude photo leaks with rape is totally cool?

robomartin 14y ago

Well, I knew I was going to take rounds. POINTING OUT THAT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS AN IMPORTANT HABIT OR VIRTUE IS NOT, IN ANY IMAGINABLE WAY, AND EXPRESSION OF APPROVAL FOR SOMEONE BECOMING A VICTIM. THE TWO ARE SEPARABLE. In most parts of the world, if I walk into certain neighborhoods while wearing a sign that openly insults a large segment of the ethnic population in that neighborhood it is highly likely that I will suffer serious harm or even be killed. Such an attack on my person is and will always be a despicable crime. However, I had a choice to make and it was my action that provoked the attack. And, while I would not, for even a second, excuse or justify the attack on my person, in retrospect an intelligent person can only conclude that the decision was the catalyst and it was an absolutely moronic decision at that. Now, you and other can go on believing that you are free to act as you wish, do and say as you want and that there should be no consequences to your actions. And that's fine. Go ahead and do it. Let's see how long you last. What I am talking about here isn't some kind of a higher moral ground. This is about the real world. Reality. And reality works like this: You do something stupid and you pay the consequences. Plain, simple, cruel and very fucking real. The new way of thinking seems to be that you ought to be able to be a complete moron and not suffer any consequences for your actions. Nice thought. Not reality. AGAIN: NONE OF THIS IS TO SAY THAT A CRIME COMMITTED AGAINST SOMEONE MAKING A DUMB MOVE IS EXCUSABLE. IT IS NOT. BUT IT IS OK TO LOOK AT THAT PERSON AND SAY: "YOU MORON. WHAT DID YOU EXPECT WOULD HAPPEN?" Yes, I am yelling at you. Snap out of it. Reality, in most parts of the world, is as I have painted it. So if you have a little girl: Would you tell your little girl to go ahead and allow nude pictures of herself to be taken? And then, would you say: "Don't worry, they are not going to be published all over the internet no matter what". Right

eric_cc 14y ago
Amen. It REALLY IS possible to be a dumbass and a victim at the same time. Many (definitely not all) of these women are clearly both. And now they may cash in on their poor life choices.
- bruceboughton 14y ago
  I'm not sure the OP would support your twisting of his opinion.
bostonpete 14y ago
The problem is that even raising the point (at least in the way you did) that a victim whose only fault was being too trusting when she was young and stupid (imagine!) is partially at fault comes across as callous and serves no purpose. It's obvious she screwed up and undoubtedly regrets it. Also, it's obvious to anyone who reads the story that she should have been more careful. So what's the point of making these observations? At best you may get a few head nods, but at worst you come across sounding a lot like the guy who says "I know she got raped, but hey, she was wearing a short skirt...".
- robomartin 14y ago
  I did not create a nexus of justification between the dumb move and the crime. Nowhere did I say something like that. Nowhere. And nowhere did I bring-up horrible crimes such as rape. Other's made that up. Not me. I focused on this issue of young one's taking compromising videos or photos of themselves and then crying foul when, through twists and turns, they end-up posted online to cause them grief. Let's not go one millimeter past that. I did not say anything whatsoever that has anything to do with rape or any other crime. That's it. Every situation is different. I know nothing about the details of the case. For all I know the boyfriend took pictures while she was sleeping. How could she be blamed for that? If that were the case though, he would have to be charged criminally as well. I think what I said was that one has to assume that anything you say or do today might be seen by a million people. So long as you are comfortable with that outcome, then, by all means, do as you please. If you are not, then don't. With regards to this serving no purpose. Well, if only one kid reads this and thinks twice before posting a dumb picture on Facebook or something of that nature the outcome is good.

mhurron 14y ago

> Do they really expect to not be raped? > responsibility for having allowed to be raped. That's the way you're going with it? It was their own damn fault? They were asking for it? They got drunk (yes it was stupid), had a one night stand (yes, stupid when drunk), so they totally had rape and humiliation coming to them (non-sequitur). > if you don't want to get raped, don't go out, stay at home, and wear clothes that cover your legs, shoulders, and forearms Oggie boggie, fear everyone. Hate to break it to you dumbass, but dressing provocatively doesn't have anything to do with it. You can be raped on the street in your business casual cloths. You can be raped at home without going out. You can be raped stopping for gas. Women aren't asking for it, they don't do anything that allows it, they shouldn't ever expect it. > (seriously, how does victim blaming bullshit like this not get buried instantly) I don't know, why hasn't your post been relegated to oblivion.

XFrequentist 14y ago
I don't understand how you possibly missed the sarcasm (it's literally a line-by-line restatement of the grandparent), especially given that you quoted the final part. What on earth did you interpret that to mean?