4 ms·

What a rant! Unfortunately, it is entirely misguided. Nobody wants to force anyone to use the 'hjkl' arrangement, I was merely sharing a tip on how to get used

What a rant! Unfortunately, it is entirely misguided. Nobody wants to force anyone to use the 'hjkl' arrangement, I was merely sharing a tip on how to get used to it if someone already wants to switch from arrow keys to 'hjkl' (like I did at some point in time). The reason for doing this is, for me, simply that it is on the home row, and therefore I can reach it quicker. If you like 'ijkl', fine, do that. I feel more comfortably with 'hjkl'. Or rather, what I am actually using is 'dhtn', being a Dvorak user. And my delete is on 'e'. Because that is how I like it. Use whatever you like, but in any case switching from one variant to another (for whatever reason) will take a few days of retraining the muscle memory.

SiVal 14y ago
[Your rant is entirely misguided.] Nobody wants to force anyone to use the 'hjkl' arrangement No, instead, they advise all new users that they should force themselves. Why are new vim users so often advised to deactivate their arrowkeys? Apparently the arrowkeys tempt them to take their hands off the normal keys. Why are they so tempted to do something so awkward? Because to new vim users with a lifetime of experience with inverted-T arrangements, the weird, archaic hjkl arrangement is even more awkward. "Well," they're told, "the solution is to make your arrowkeys YET MORE awkward by deactivating them entirely." What I'm saying is that the significant vim benefits that come from staying on the normal keys can be obtained with a carrot instead of a stick. Instead of making their arrowkeys even more difficult than the awkward hjkl keys, make their normal keys even more tempting.
- anonymouz 14y ago
  I think they are simply advised to learn the 'hjkl' navigation because many of those already using have made good experiences with it. That's the nature of advice: Allow someone else to profit from your experience. But it's just that, advice, you're free to ignore it. I honestly don't see what's the big deal about it or why this in particular seems to irk you so much. When I started out using Vim someone teaching me the basics pointed out the 'hjkl' navigation and recommended that I learn it, because I will be faster with it. Having to learn a lot of other commands, I kind of ignored the advice since it was simply a reflex for me to reach for the arrow keys. I happily used the arrow keys for years; nobody complained about it. At some point I finally decided to give the 'hjkl' navigation a serious try, and for that reason deactivated the arrow keys to help me break my old habit and take up the new one. I would have found taking up 'ijkl' equally awkward, since either case I would have to retrain my muscle memory. Honestly, 'ijkl' and 'hjkl' doesn't seem to make much of a difference to me. Either one has to be trained a bit, and then it's automatic. The one advantage of 'ijkl' that I see is that it forms a basis for the quaternions :-).
  - SiVal 14y ago
    Well, I guess we can both agree that in the end, as usual, it all comes down to quaternions. ;-)
- chimeracoder 14y ago
  > No, instead, they advise all new users that they should force themselves. Because it may make you slightly slower for a week, but it makes you faster for the rest of your life. Depending on how much time you think you'll spend in Vim for the rest of your life, that tradeoff may be very smart indeed. Doing what seems easiest or most "natural" at first may not always be the best user interface in the long run.
  - ShirtlessRod 14y ago
    So why not make ijkl the new standard? It has all the benefits of the "traditional" arrow key layout without losing the speed of staying on the home row.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      If it ain't broke, don't fix it? The only people that would benefit are people who have not yet learned hjkl, and those people have no influence. What are you expecting to be done, Vim wildly breaks standards, pisses off existing users, and changes the default key layout? Never going to happen, never should happen. First off, because it will piss off existing users for no reason whatsoever, and secondly because nobody in a position to make that call would make that call. Thankfully. Distribute Vim yourself with these changes; see how far you get.

SiVal 14y ago

[Your rant is entirely misguided.] Nobody wants to force anyone to use the 'hjkl' arrangement No, instead, they advise all new users that they should force themselves. Why are new vim users so often advised to deactivate their arrowkeys? Apparently the arrowkeys tempt them to take their hands off the normal keys. Why are they so tempted to do something so awkward? Because to new vim users with a lifetime of experience with inverted-T arrangements, the weird, archaic hjkl arrangement is even more awkward. "Well," they're told, "the solution is to make your arrowkeys YET MORE awkward by deactivating them entirely." What I'm saying is that the significant vim benefits that come from staying on the normal keys can be obtained with a carrot instead of a stick. Instead of making their arrowkeys even more difficult than the awkward hjkl keys, make their normal keys even more tempting.

anonymouz 14y ago
I think they are simply advised to learn the 'hjkl' navigation because many of those already using have made good experiences with it. That's the nature of advice: Allow someone else to profit from your experience. But it's just that, advice, you're free to ignore it. I honestly don't see what's the big deal about it or why this in particular seems to irk you so much. When I started out using Vim someone teaching me the basics pointed out the 'hjkl' navigation and recommended that I learn it, because I will be faster with it. Having to learn a lot of other commands, I kind of ignored the advice since it was simply a reflex for me to reach for the arrow keys. I happily used the arrow keys for years; nobody complained about it. At some point I finally decided to give the 'hjkl' navigation a serious try, and for that reason deactivated the arrow keys to help me break my old habit and take up the new one. I would have found taking up 'ijkl' equally awkward, since either case I would have to retrain my muscle memory. Honestly, 'ijkl' and 'hjkl' doesn't seem to make much of a difference to me. Either one has to be trained a bit, and then it's automatic. The one advantage of 'ijkl' that I see is that it forms a basis for the quaternions :-).
- SiVal 14y ago
  Well, I guess we can both agree that in the end, as usual, it all comes down to quaternions. ;-)
chimeracoder 14y ago
> No, instead, they advise all new users that they should force themselves. Because it may make you slightly slower for a week, but it makes you faster for the rest of your life. Depending on how much time you think you'll spend in Vim for the rest of your life, that tradeoff may be very smart indeed. Doing what seems easiest or most "natural" at first may not always be the best user interface in the long run.
- ShirtlessRod 14y ago
  So why not make ijkl the new standard? It has all the benefits of the "traditional" arrow key layout without losing the speed of staying on the home row.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it? The only people that would benefit are people who have not yet learned hjkl, and those people have no influence. What are you expecting to be done, Vim wildly breaks standards, pisses off existing users, and changes the default key layout? Never going to happen, never should happen. First off, because it will piss off existing users for no reason whatsoever, and secondly because nobody in a position to make that call would make that call. Thankfully. Distribute Vim yourself with these changes; see how far you get.