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> more jail time than robbing a bank This meme of "more jail time than robbing a bank" needs to end. The federal penalty for possessing a firearm while robbin
by slapshot 14y ago
> more jail time than robbing a bank
This meme of "more jail time than robbing a bank" needs to end.
The federal penalty for possessing a firearm while robbing a bank is a mandatory minimum of 5 years and a maximum of life in prison. The mandatory minimum means that a judge could not sentence an armed bank robber for less than 5 years for each bank robbed while holding a gun (you don't even need to show it; just having it is enough). To make it worse, each 5-year gun sentence must run _consecutive_ with each other sentence (ie., be added on after you serve the other sentences). [1] If you brandish the gun, it becomes a mandatory minimum of 7 years, and if you fire it you get a mandatory minimum of 10 years [1].
Contrast that to all of the hacking charges we've discussed recently where the mandatory minimum is zero (a judge could sentence a convicted defendant to no penalty, or to probation).
To go further, the US Sentencing Guidelines [2], which are all-but-mandatory for federal judges (there's a constitutional out, but in effect most defendants are sentenced according to the Guidelines) gives "wire fraud" a base offense level of 7 (of 42+), which gives a sentencing range of either 0-6 months or 4-10 months, depending on how much economic harm is caused. Compare that to robbing a bank, which is a base offense level of 22, brandishing a firearm adds +5 for an offense level of 27, and if you actually make off with any cash add another +2 for an offense level of 29 (of 42+). The sentencing guidelines call for a sentence of 87-108 months (7-9 years) for a first-time bank robber, per bank, assuming that nobody gets hurt---plus the mandatory additional 5+ years for having a gun.
Realistically, bank robbers face a lot more time than even malicious computer criminals.
[1] See section (c) of 18 USC 924 http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/924 http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/924
[2] http://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/index.cfm http://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/index.cfm
- laumars 14y ago> "The federal penalty for possessing a firearm while robbing a bank is a mandatory minimum of 5 years and a maximum of life in prison. The mandatory minimum means that a judge could not sentence an armed bank robber for less than 5 years for each bank robbed while holding a gun (you don't even need to show it; just having it is enough). What's more, you don't even have to have a gun for it to be classed as "armed robbery". In the UK, just the threat of having a fire arm is enough (you could be brandishing a water pistol or even just making a gun gesture behind your unzipped coat).
- sp332 14y agoYup, same in the US.
- randomdata 14y agoThis seems more like walking up to a teller and asking nicely in a clever way if you could have all the money. Is it even a crime if the teller responds positively to your request?
- jlgreco 14y agoMy suspicion is that yes, that would be a robbery if you ask in such a way that the teller actually gives you money. You could ask in such a way that it comes across as a joke ("Anything more I can do for you today sir?" "A million bucks and a winning lottery ticket would be nice"), but if it comes across as a joke then the teller isn't going to give you any money.. because they think it is a joke.
- randomdata 14y agoI think that is a reasonable interpretation, but sets a scary precedent. If you are selling something and I, the buyer, say "I'd really like to get this for free" and you respond, "okay, it's yours!" Can you come back and call on me being a thief later? > if it comes across as a joke then the teller isn't going to give you any money.. because they think it is a joke. I'd also add that vast majority of malformed requests are denied. Only computers who have a sense of humour, so to speak, comply to the abnormal requests. Computer security is much closer to this scenario than carrying a gun, I feel.
- jlgreco 14y agoYeah, in the real world there are a lot of more factors to consider than just the wording. How threatening the victim/potential victim feels the other party is being is hugely important. For example, there is a world of difference between a panhandler asking you "Hey, can I have a couple dollars" in a populated touristy area during the day, and the same panhandler following you for several blocks at night before asking you that in an ally. One is just panhandling, but the other is effectively a mugging. Computers don't really have those sort of cues, so it becomes difficult to make reasonable comparisons between the two.
- ihsw 14y agoTell that to Aaron Swartz, oh wait...
- Retric 14y agoPeople have successfully robbed banks with just notes. The penalty for witch can be less than 5 years depending on the note. Not that robbing a bank is all that profitable vs. the risk and penalty's.
- TillE 14y agoGood bank robbers use digging equipment, not guns... http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/berlin-bank-robbers-dig-tunnel-to-get-at-bank-riches-a-877500.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/berlin-bank-ro...
- Xcelerate 14y agoWell, bluntly, I was just exaggerating.
- libria 14y agoThis is the epitome of a bike shed discussion. You surpassed the parent post length to demolish a throwaway hyperbole. Stay on topic.