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* "Aaron was just violating TOS" * "They were pushing for 35/50 years in prison" * "This is just like using my neighbor's Wifi" * "They were trumping up char

by mpyne 14y ago

* "Aaron was just violating TOS" * "They were pushing for 35/50 years in prison" * "This is just like using my neighbor's Wifi" * "They were trumping up charges to make an example of Aaron" (before you downvote, read Kerr's posts). * "They were aiming for harshest possible sentence" * There was also the very nice individual who doxxed Ortiz, who I'm sure is a fine representative of all that is right with hacktivism. And on and on. And in the meantime there has been very little commentary over the major (not only, but major) cause of this (untreated depression), presumably because that doesn't play into the agenda. Likewise there is little discussion on ways to amend CFAA to make it better-aligned with what we intuitively feel would be appropriate (because in the hacktivist mold the only good change would be to repeal CFAA entirely). Feel free to say I'm seeing it wrong, but I don't think I am.

rhizome 14y ago
Your quotes are selective, so I hope this doesn't just devolve into people battling their own predilections through their HuffPo/Drudge filters. There's lots to be said for the entire process. As for depression, the federal case is the only part that is any of our business, and is the only part (that I know of) that provides some commonality of experience and results, as the feds can come after any of us for whatever three felonies a day they choose to do so. The prosecutors were helped by the PATRIOT act, after all, which covers more of us than Aaron's personal historical details and experiences. Aren't we allowed to talk about whether that's a troublesome umbrella to live under, and how it played out in a specific case? You can't just say "every case is different" when the techniques can be the same between them. Forest for the trees.
- mpyne 14y ago
  > As for depression, the federal case is the only part that is any of our business If by "business" we mean keeping our brightest minds around to drive progress on the difficult issues of our times then we absolutely must take a holistic view. If by "business" we simply mean advancing the goals of hacktivism then a focus on depression would certainly not help, I agree.
  - rhizome 14y ago
    3. "business" to refer to a specific human experiencing their own life and the factor(s) that applies to the general case. There were non-case factors, sure, but those are different for everybody, so dragging them into the argument is to strive to compare apples and oranges.
dchichkov 14y ago
>> And in the meantime there has been very little commentary over the major (not only, but major) cause of this (untreated depression), presumably because that doesn't play into the agenda. Likewise there is little discussion on ways to amend CFAA to make it better-aligned with what we intuitively feel would be appropriate (because in the hacktivist mold the only good change would be to repeal CFAA entirely). Feel free to say I'm seeing it wrong, but I don't think I am. Actually it has been discussed. As per his father: """ Bob Swartz also dismissed the notion that his son had a depressive personality. "He had never been diagnosed as having depression; he was never on medication for having depression," Swartz said. Aaron Swartz's mother had been hospitalized in December 2011 after having a bowel obstruction and going into septic shock, Bob Swartz said. She spent several weeks in a coma, four months in intensive care, and two more months in the hospital. "So the notion, the narrative that people are going to say -- is that he’s somebody who just has depression -- is just wrong. You’d be depressed too if you were under a 13-count federal indictment and you go see your mother, who’s in a coma."
- Volpe 14y ago
  Seems odd to argue he didn't suffer from depression (despite his fathers words). Do people who aren't suffering from depression commit suicide? I'd always thought that (attempted) suicide was like the smoking gun for diagnosing depression?
  - lilsunnybee 14y ago
    Given the right circumstances, almost anyone can be made to want and try to commit suicide. Intense, prolonged isolation and other types of torture can cause that, but that does not mean anyone subject to such things has a depressive disorder requiring treatment. Sometimes the situation is the only problem.
    - Volpe 14y ago
      I would challenge that... Julian Assange has faced a lot more isolation, much larger potential charges... And still lives...

by mpyne 14y ago

rhizome 14y ago

Your quotes are selective, so I hope this doesn't just devolve into people battling their own predilections through their HuffPo/Drudge filters. There's lots to be said for the entire process. As for depression, the federal case is the only part that is any of our business, and is the only part (that I know of) that provides some commonality of experience and results, as the feds can come after any of us for whatever three felonies a day they choose to do so. The prosecutors were helped by the PATRIOT act, after all, which covers more of us than Aaron's personal historical details and experiences. Aren't we allowed to talk about whether that's a troublesome umbrella to live under, and how it played out in a specific case? You can't just say "every case is different" when the techniques can be the same between them. Forest for the trees.

mpyne 14y ago
> As for depression, the federal case is the only part that is any of our business If by "business" we mean keeping our brightest minds around to drive progress on the difficult issues of our times then we absolutely must take a holistic view. If by "business" we simply mean advancing the goals of hacktivism then a focus on depression would certainly not help, I agree.
- rhizome 14y ago
  3. "business" to refer to a specific human experiencing their own life and the factor(s) that applies to the general case. There were non-case factors, sure, but those are different for everybody, so dragging them into the argument is to strive to compare apples and oranges.

dchichkov 14y ago

>> And in the meantime there has been very little commentary over the major (not only, but major) cause of this (untreated depression), presumably because that doesn't play into the agenda. Likewise there is little discussion on ways to amend CFAA to make it better-aligned with what we intuitively feel would be appropriate (because in the hacktivist mold the only good change would be to repeal CFAA entirely). Feel free to say I'm seeing it wrong, but I don't think I am. Actually it has been discussed. As per his father: """ Bob Swartz also dismissed the notion that his son had a depressive personality. "He had never been diagnosed as having depression; he was never on medication for having depression," Swartz said. Aaron Swartz's mother had been hospitalized in December 2011 after having a bowel obstruction and going into septic shock, Bob Swartz said. She spent several weeks in a coma, four months in intensive care, and two more months in the hospital. "So the notion, the narrative that people are going to say -- is that he’s somebody who just has depression -- is just wrong. You’d be depressed too if you were under a 13-count federal indictment and you go see your mother, who’s in a coma."

Volpe 14y ago
Seems odd to argue he didn't suffer from depression (despite his fathers words). Do people who aren't suffering from depression commit suicide? I'd always thought that (attempted) suicide was like the smoking gun for diagnosing depression?
- lilsunnybee 14y ago
  Given the right circumstances, almost anyone can be made to want and try to commit suicide. Intense, prolonged isolation and other types of torture can cause that, but that does not mean anyone subject to such things has a depressive disorder requiring treatment. Sometimes the situation is the only problem.
  - Volpe 14y ago
    I would challenge that... Julian Assange has faced a lot more isolation, much larger potential charges... And still lives...