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Having completed a full course, I agree with you regarding the video content. It went beyond practice guidance and veered into disappointing endorsements of woo

Having completed a full course, I agree with you regarding the video content. It went beyond practice guidance and veered into disappointing endorsements of woo-woo. The nightly videos start out objective and practice-focused, but by the middle of the course Goenka suggests quantum-scariness explanations for the sensations meditators are feeling. As one retreat participant noted, in one of the nightly video talks [0]: > [Goenka] mixes quantum mechanics with "psychology of enlightenment" What makes it a bit more of a breach of trust is that by the time he breaks out the full-on woo-woo, you're deep in the process—the days are flying by—you purposely don't have your critical thought facilities active. Aside from that sour note, I'd still suggest this course to others. Hitting a stride with practice and tuning your ability to focus your attention on minute sensations is a fascinating experience, especially if you've taken any courses on proprioception, sensation and perception. If you're a rationalist who already firmly rejects the ideas of mind-body separation and reincarnation then you have nothing to worry about. [0]: http://www.vipassanaforum.net/forum/index.php?topic=1871.0 http://www.vipassanaforum.net/forum/index.php?topic=1871.0

ebcase 14y ago
I've been to a number of 10-day Goenka courses, and agree that in the videos he occasionally drifts off to questionably relevant territory. However, the evening talks also point out that we should mentally "leave aside" any of the intellectual stuff we don't agree with, and instead focus on what our own experience with the technique reveals. The technique itself — actually sitting still and observing breath and sensations — is the important part, not the stuff about bubble chambers, etc.
particular_ 14y ago
The arguments made by the poster in your link really resounded with me. It goes against my ethics to recommend these courses to people who are actively seeking to jump-start their meditative practice. As far as being a rationalist goes, I'm not confident that I can always keep my mind free from unwanted social/religious influence, or allow myself to be influenced in a controlled manner. I'm glad that this one off-hand remark about bubble chambers actually awakened me from a cognitive stupor, but I can't be sure that, under slightly different circumstances, I wouldn't have ignored the doubts and the red lights going off somewhere in the back of my head. Cognitive blind spots are a real thing, and my guess is that many Eastern religious groups are very sophisticated in how they use these blind spots to appeal to intelligent, but unsuspecting, individuals. Eastern techniques of religious indoctrination greatly differ from the guilt-based Christian approach that most of us are familiar with. I stand by my position: these retreats are not simply meditation courses. They are a religious ritual held by a well-organized religious group. Moreover, they are deceptively advertised as non-religious, and herein lies my problem with them. If someone wishes to learn meditation from a religious source, I think it is wise to refer to an organization that is overt in its practice and beliefs.

ebcase 14y ago

I've been to a number of 10-day Goenka courses, and agree that in the videos he occasionally drifts off to questionably relevant territory. However, the evening talks also point out that we should mentally "leave aside" any of the intellectual stuff we don't agree with, and instead focus on what our own experience with the technique reveals. The technique itself — actually sitting still and observing breath and sensations — is the important part, not the stuff about bubble chambers, etc.

particular_ 14y ago

The arguments made by the poster in your link really resounded with me. It goes against my ethics to recommend these courses to people who are actively seeking to jump-start their meditative practice. As far as being a rationalist goes, I'm not confident that I can always keep my mind free from unwanted social/religious influence, or allow myself to be influenced in a controlled manner. I'm glad that this one off-hand remark about bubble chambers actually awakened me from a cognitive stupor, but I can't be sure that, under slightly different circumstances, I wouldn't have ignored the doubts and the red lights going off somewhere in the back of my head. Cognitive blind spots are a real thing, and my guess is that many Eastern religious groups are very sophisticated in how they use these blind spots to appeal to intelligent, but unsuspecting, individuals. Eastern techniques of religious indoctrination greatly differ from the guilt-based Christian approach that most of us are familiar with. I stand by my position: these retreats are not simply meditation courses. They are a religious ritual held by a well-organized religious group. Moreover, they are deceptively advertised as non-religious, and herein lies my problem with them. If someone wishes to learn meditation from a religious source, I think it is wise to refer to an organization that is overt in its practice and beliefs.