4 ms·

Mother Theresa once said that when she looked upon the many she could do nothing, but when she focused on the one, she could do something. The same applies her

Mother Theresa once said that when she looked upon the many she could do nothing, but when she focused on the one, she could do something. The same applies here. Someone needs to be held accountable. Change needs to start somewhere.

tedunangst 14y ago
Someone needs to be held accountable. Ortiz is someone. Therefore...
- smsm42 14y ago
  Oritz is not just someone. Oritz is who had control over the matters and held the decision power in the matter. She's not a random bystander.
- cwp 14y ago
  What, you have someone else in mind? Or maybe she's just an innocent victim here, a well-meaning prosecutor working for justice, who just had the bad luck to lay charges against a popular but suicidal trouble maker and is now being scapegoated?
- mpyne 14y ago
  Accountable for what exactly?
jb17 14y ago
I'm not sure Mother Theresa is a good example for anything, but regarding the general argument you are making here: There is a huge difference between helping one person (decreasing the general suffering by a tiny but attainable amount) and making one person an example (hoping this changes the status quo somehow).
- erichocean 14y ago
  I don't think anyone wants to make Ortiz an "example". Ortiz literally did not do her job. She over-prosecuted a case, apparently for personal advancement and DoJ-vendetta seeking, that was worth no more than a misdemeanor at best. Sure, it's a problem that "the system" allowed her to do so. But it's also a problem that she abused the system, destroyed a life, shows no remorse, and will likely continue to abuse the system if not removed from office.
  - DanBC 14y ago
    The system didn't just allow her to do it, it encouraged her to do it. And not just her, but probably many others in positions like hers.
  - malandrew 14y ago
    Totally agree. At the very least, she should fired, but definitely not in the name of revenge and not to make an example, but because she didn't do her job. Making an example of someone implies over prosecuting someone in order to discourage others. In some industries, certain acts bar you from working in that industry again forever. Lawyers can be disbarred. Doctors and other licensed professionals can lose their license to practice. The same should happen to any and every prosecutor that abuses their power for personal gain. Removing people for violating the responsibilities entrusted to them isn't "making an example", but simply removing any and all that shouldn't be practicing in a certain professional area because they don't adhere to the ethical standards of their position. However, an investigation is merited to determine if Ortiz and Heynmann were willfully negligant in applying their tactics. The same way we hold other individuals accountable for harm caused by bullying, she may merit the same. My gut tells me that an investigation and possible trial would exonerate her of any criminal wrongdoing (unless some other over-zealous prosecutor treated her as she treated Aaron), but would leave her open to a civil lawsuit, which she probably deserves
  - twoodfin 14y ago
    apparently for personal advancement and DoJ-vendetta seeking What's the evidence for that?
- thoughtcriminal 14y ago
  I was referring to her strategy, and how she learned to make positive change.
aw3c2 14y ago
Mother Theresa let people die slow, horrible and unnecessary deaths. You should never use that person as a good example for anything really. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa#Criticism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa#Criticism
- chris_wot 14y ago
  Huh... That seems to have been removed!
  - aw3c2 14y ago
    Link to a random version that has it. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mother_Teresa&oldid=533864712#Criticism http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mother_Teresa&... and then the 5th paragraph onwards.
- pvaldes 14y ago
  > Mother Theresa let people die slow, horrible and unnecessary deaths Instead to, err... dispacht them quick and efficiently?
  - aw3c2 14y ago
    Instead of treating their illness and making them not die.
    - pvaldes 14y ago
      Of course, well, but we are missing the point here. To care for all indian citizens and to treat its health problems (if possible) was not the duty of this woman. It is the duty of the indian government. The duty of the Republic of India and of all the hindi people. Yes, I agree that having a team of volunteers "cleaning the streets" and hiding ugly pictures is very "convenient" and is not solving the real problem here: that this man, woman or child will die in a street and the government will not cares about this, probably because this human is tagged as "low chast" and "less human than me". To charge a single NGO with the whole health system of more than a 1,2 millions of people seems not fair. Even if this NGO receives money for trying to help poor people. I don't want to speak for this NGO, but I think that the game here is probably more about educate the hindi people that this situation is not right, than to save today a relatively few lives just to see how they die tomorrow victims of a unfair structure that tags people as first class, second class,... disposable. And, yes, you need some money to maintain this structure. The Mother Teresa NGO don't need to open hospitals, the Red Cross do this, Medicus mundi do this. We should not blame a single woman for not doing the work of a system that rejects to treat and save a human people that can be saved. We should blame either the indian government, or if you prefer, the whole (lack of) humanity for this.

tedunangst 14y ago

Someone needs to be held accountable. Ortiz is someone. Therefore...

smsm42 14y ago
Oritz is not just someone. Oritz is who had control over the matters and held the decision power in the matter. She's not a random bystander.
cwp 14y ago
What, you have someone else in mind? Or maybe she's just an innocent victim here, a well-meaning prosecutor working for justice, who just had the bad luck to lay charges against a popular but suicidal trouble maker and is now being scapegoated?
mpyne 14y ago
Accountable for what exactly?

jb17 14y ago

I'm not sure Mother Theresa is a good example for anything, but regarding the general argument you are making here: There is a huge difference between helping one person (decreasing the general suffering by a tiny but attainable amount) and making one person an example (hoping this changes the status quo somehow).

erichocean 14y ago
I don't think anyone wants to make Ortiz an "example". Ortiz literally did not do her job. She over-prosecuted a case, apparently for personal advancement and DoJ-vendetta seeking, that was worth no more than a misdemeanor at best. Sure, it's a problem that "the system" allowed her to do so. But it's also a problem that she abused the system, destroyed a life, shows no remorse, and will likely continue to abuse the system if not removed from office.
- DanBC 14y ago
  The system didn't just allow her to do it, it encouraged her to do it. And not just her, but probably many others in positions like hers.
- malandrew 14y ago
  Totally agree. At the very least, she should fired, but definitely not in the name of revenge and not to make an example, but because she didn't do her job. Making an example of someone implies over prosecuting someone in order to discourage others. In some industries, certain acts bar you from working in that industry again forever. Lawyers can be disbarred. Doctors and other licensed professionals can lose their license to practice. The same should happen to any and every prosecutor that abuses their power for personal gain. Removing people for violating the responsibilities entrusted to them isn't "making an example", but simply removing any and all that shouldn't be practicing in a certain professional area because they don't adhere to the ethical standards of their position. However, an investigation is merited to determine if Ortiz and Heynmann were willfully negligant in applying their tactics. The same way we hold other individuals accountable for harm caused by bullying, she may merit the same. My gut tells me that an investigation and possible trial would exonerate her of any criminal wrongdoing (unless some other over-zealous prosecutor treated her as she treated Aaron), but would leave her open to a civil lawsuit, which she probably deserves
- twoodfin 14y ago
  apparently for personal advancement and DoJ-vendetta seeking What's the evidence for that?
thoughtcriminal 14y ago
I was referring to her strategy, and how she learned to make positive change.

aw3c2 14y ago

Mother Theresa let people die slow, horrible and unnecessary deaths. You should never use that person as a good example for anything really. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa#Criticism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa#Criticism

chris_wot 14y ago
Huh... That seems to have been removed!
- aw3c2 14y ago
  Link to a random version that has it. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mother_Teresa&oldid=533864712#Criticism http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mother_Teresa&... and then the 5th paragraph onwards.
pvaldes 14y ago
> Mother Theresa let people die slow, horrible and unnecessary deaths Instead to, err... dispacht them quick and efficiently?
- aw3c2 14y ago
  Instead of treating their illness and making them not die.
  - pvaldes 14y ago
    Of course, well, but we are missing the point here. To care for all indian citizens and to treat its health problems (if possible) was not the duty of this woman. It is the duty of the indian government. The duty of the Republic of India and of all the hindi people. Yes, I agree that having a team of volunteers "cleaning the streets" and hiding ugly pictures is very "convenient" and is not solving the real problem here: that this man, woman or child will die in a street and the government will not cares about this, probably because this human is tagged as "low chast" and "less human than me". To charge a single NGO with the whole health system of more than a 1,2 millions of people seems not fair. Even if this NGO receives money for trying to help poor people. I don't want to speak for this NGO, but I think that the game here is probably more about educate the hindi people that this situation is not right, than to save today a relatively few lives just to see how they die tomorrow victims of a unfair structure that tags people as first class, second class,... disposable. And, yes, you need some money to maintain this structure. The Mother Teresa NGO don't need to open hospitals, the Red Cross do this, Medicus mundi do this. We should not blame a single woman for not doing the work of a system that rejects to treat and save a human people that can be saved. We should blame either the indian government, or if you prefer, the whole (lack of) humanity for this.