5 ms·

What's in it for him?

by BruceIV 14y ago

notahacker 14y ago
PR. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest the process of regulatory approval for new types of aircraft batteries might take a little more time than anyone wants to leave the 787s on the ground for
- NoPiece 14y ago
  Do you really need regulatory approval to change a battery design or battery type in a commercial plane?
  - josephlord 14y ago
    I think that the battery is used to restart the engines in some emergency situations. Do you really want critical components that have been tested for many hours/weeks/months in the aeroplanes systems to be replaced without an approval process? Now would you let Boeing make that choice? The customers American Airlines, Al Italia, Aeroflot, Air Timbuktu? Remember the rules have to apply to all planes, manufacturers and airlines including the ones about to go bankrupt. In my view the answer would be a definite YES although I would hope the approval could be expedited if there are clear issues with the existing solution and good reasons to believe the new solution will solve it without causing other issues.
    - NoPiece 14y ago
      Heh, I meant it as an actual question, is there a regulatory process for changing batteries. I could see something like this either being covered or not.
      - ubernostrum 14y ago
        The FAA directive covers this: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/0/8a1a8dc3135b60dd86257af60004cf4a/$FILE/2013-02-51_Emergency.pdf http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/... Look on page 2 for what's expected to be done and how it'll be approved.
      - josephlord 14y ago
        Sorry I read it as a 'it is only a battery' and 'regulation sucks the government can stay out the free market will be self regulating' post. Apologies if this was not your meaning.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
        I have little experience with the aviation industry besides once having been a student pilot, but I have a fair amount of experience in the medical device industry. If this were a medical device, there would not be a regulatory process specifically for changing batteries, but there would a process for changing anything about the design of the product. Briefly, that means that a Risk Assessment of the proposed design change must be made, the design change will be controlled (i.e., Requirements, Design, Testing and Reviews of all phases will be performed and properly documented), then the Design Output must be reviewed for correctness and the results may be used to update the initial Risk Assessment if needed. Similar processes will apply to an airliner, the question is will they be more or less rigorous. So yeah, changing a critical component is a time consuming and expensive process.
grecy 14y ago
I think you've just hit the nail on the head of what's wrong with the world today. Is it impossible to think a billionaire would offer to help another company because he's a nice person? Because he loves tech and wants to see modern, efficient designs like the 787 succeed? Why do you automatically assume there is something in it for him? Next time you have the chance, do a favor for someone, just because.
- BruceIV 14y ago
  I do favors for people, but it's one thing to help your friend paint walls and another to pay your employees to help your corporate competitor.
  - TeMPOraL 14y ago
    That's exactly what grecy was talking about. It is a different thing and that's what's wrong with the world today. Boeing is a competitor, yes, but all in all, they're together in the same game - making world a better place by developing aviation technology. Right now Musk doesn't have an awesome airliner, so why not help the guys who do? (I'm not saying it is his motivation. But damn sure I'd love if things worked this way. They should.)
- doktrin 14y ago
  I don't take to Twitter to announce that I am ready to "do something nice". Genuinely nice acts typically are not preceded by public fanfare.
InclinedPlane 14y ago
It's high RoI for him almost no matter what happens. Imagine that he puts Tesla and SpaceX engineers to work on the problem and they aren't able to help. Well, that's pretty much just a waste of resources, but he still probably gets decent PR out of it and he gets to cement the idea of his companies being "good guys", which is useful even down to the level of employee retention. Imagine that "his" engineers are able to help. Well, now he's done several things. Increased the prestige of his companies, increased the satisfaction of his employees, etc. Also, he's made the world a better place by making planes safer and keeping planes flying, which has significant positive (though often diffuse) trickle down effects on the future. On the other hand, imagine that his offers are rebuffed, in which case he gets to take the high road and still gets a decent PR win. The only way this could backfire would be if somehow he helped out and made things worse. Or, say, Tesla/SpaceX engineers fix the problem and then a month from now a 787 falls out of the sky for undetermined reasons, potentially leaving him with some of the blame. That sort of thing is rather unlikely though.

What's in it for him?

by BruceIV 14y ago

What's in it for him?

PR. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest the process of regulatory approval for new types of aircraft batteries might take a little more time than anyone wants to leave the 787s on the ground for

NoPiece 14y ago
Do you really need regulatory approval to change a battery design or battery type in a commercial plane?
- josephlord 14y ago
  I think that the battery is used to restart the engines in some emergency situations. Do you really want critical components that have been tested for many hours/weeks/months in the aeroplanes systems to be replaced without an approval process? Now would you let Boeing make that choice? The customers American Airlines, Al Italia, Aeroflot, Air Timbuktu? Remember the rules have to apply to all planes, manufacturers and airlines including the ones about to go bankrupt. In my view the answer would be a definite YES although I would hope the approval could be expedited if there are clear issues with the existing solution and good reasons to believe the new solution will solve it without causing other issues.
  - NoPiece 14y ago
    Heh, I meant it as an actual question, is there a regulatory process for changing batteries. I could see something like this either being covered or not.
    - ubernostrum 14y ago
      The FAA directive covers this: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/0/8a1a8dc3135b60dd86257af60004cf4a/$FILE/2013-02-51_Emergency.pdf http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/... Look on page 2 for what's expected to be done and how it'll be approved.
    - josephlord 14y ago
      Sorry I read it as a 'it is only a battery' and 'regulation sucks the government can stay out the free market will be self regulating' post. Apologies if this was not your meaning.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
      I have little experience with the aviation industry besides once having been a student pilot, but I have a fair amount of experience in the medical device industry. If this were a medical device, there would not be a regulatory process specifically for changing batteries, but there would a process for changing anything about the design of the product. Briefly, that means that a Risk Assessment of the proposed design change must be made, the design change will be controlled (i.e., Requirements, Design, Testing and Reviews of all phases will be performed and properly documented), then the Design Output must be reviewed for correctness and the results may be used to update the initial Risk Assessment if needed. Similar processes will apply to an airliner, the question is will they be more or less rigorous. So yeah, changing a critical component is a time consuming and expensive process.

grecy 14y ago

I think you've just hit the nail on the head of what's wrong with the world today. Is it impossible to think a billionaire would offer to help another company because he's a nice person? Because he loves tech and wants to see modern, efficient designs like the 787 succeed? Why do you automatically assume there is something in it for him? Next time you have the chance, do a favor for someone, just because.

BruceIV 14y ago
I do favors for people, but it's one thing to help your friend paint walls and another to pay your employees to help your corporate competitor.
- TeMPOraL 14y ago
  That's exactly what grecy was talking about. It is a different thing and that's what's wrong with the world today. Boeing is a competitor, yes, but all in all, they're together in the same game - making world a better place by developing aviation technology. Right now Musk doesn't have an awesome airliner, so why not help the guys who do? (I'm not saying it is his motivation. But damn sure I'd love if things worked this way. They should.)
doktrin 14y ago
I don't take to Twitter to announce that I am ready to "do something nice". Genuinely nice acts typically are not preceded by public fanfare.

InclinedPlane 14y ago

It's high RoI for him almost no matter what happens. Imagine that he puts Tesla and SpaceX engineers to work on the problem and they aren't able to help. Well, that's pretty much just a waste of resources, but he still probably gets decent PR out of it and he gets to cement the idea of his companies being "good guys", which is useful even down to the level of employee retention. Imagine that "his" engineers are able to help. Well, now he's done several things. Increased the prestige of his companies, increased the satisfaction of his employees, etc. Also, he's made the world a better place by making planes safer and keeping planes flying, which has significant positive (though often diffuse) trickle down effects on the future. On the other hand, imagine that his offers are rebuffed, in which case he gets to take the high road and still gets a decent PR win. The only way this could backfire would be if somehow he helped out and made things worse. Or, say, Tesla/SpaceX engineers fix the problem and then a month from now a 787 falls out of the sky for undetermined reasons, potentially leaving him with some of the blame. That sort of thing is rather unlikely though.