9 ms·

$75k is a decent salary in most of the US, but if you're in NYC or SF, even his 20% variance (bringing it up to $90k) just isn't enough. If you want to save mo

by daeken 14y ago

$75k is a decent salary in most of the US, but if you're in NYC or SF, even his 20% variance (bringing it up to $90k) just isn't enough. If you want to save money, buy a house in the future, and have money to do things, then $120k is minimum in Manhattan, and $90-100k in most of the rest of NYC. Yes, you can live very cheaply in NYC, but at the expense of time; I personally don't want to travel for an hour or more to get to an office, myself. Saying that a salary is "enough" because that's where happiness flattens out is silly. Most people have no idea how to manage their money, stay out of debt, and prepare for retirement, so they're happy once their salary outstrips their immediate ability to spend.

cm2012 14y ago
You are extremely out of touch with the day to day reality of most of New York. One hour commute is really the norm, and people making 60,000 a year are on average quite comfortable here, all throughout Queens, Brooklyn, the Bronx and Staten Island. 75k is really comfortable. Rents for nice 2 bedrooms are from 1300-1800 within an hour of the city in really nice neighborhoods.
- daeken 14y ago
  I'm well aware of what people do, but it's something I would never do unless I had absolutely no other choice. With a one hour commute, assuming 48 working weeks a year, that's 20 days of your year that are burnt just getting to and from work! My life means more to me than money.
  - jasonlotito 14y ago
    > My life means more to me than money. Do not assume that money is the reason for living an hour away from work. There are many reasons, including schooling, which is even more important with special needs children. I realize you didn't intend to say that, just making it clear however. =) On that note, don't also assume that an hour long commute means an hour wasted. As someone who makes that hour-plus long trek every day, I've learned how to fill that time. I'm a big audiobook fan, and because of the commute, I'm able to commit to reading a lot more than I would otherwise. On top of that, in the city, commuting becomes easier with public transportation. When I was living in Montreal, I could read more than just audiobooks. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but those days aren't necessarily burnt.
- aerolite 14y ago
  My parents made maybe 40K and we lived in the Bronx in a comfortable neighborhood when I was in high school. It took me about ~45 minutes to get to school on the subway and I saw plenty of executive-looking people on the train.
lifeguard 14y ago
Wow. Just, wow. Double the average is not enough? (36k in NY urban area) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest-income_urban_areas_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest-income_urban_areas_in_t...
- daeken 14y ago
  The takehome on $36k wouldn't even be able to cover my tiny (~180sqft) studio in Manhattan ($1700/mo), let alone a decent place. And that place was a steal. As I said, it's possible to live very cheaply in NYC, if you're willing to be far away from everything; I know people who travel an hour and a half each way to get to work, to save a few hundred dollars a month. I can't make that sort of tradeoff -- my time is just worth too much to me. Edit: I should note, this is the primary reason I left NYC about 6 months ago. I'm paying all of $1400/mo for a large house in CT now, and working from home. Much as I love it, living in NYC is just too crazy.
  - yolesaber 14y ago
    I'm sorry my friend but that is hardly a "steal". Also, you can very easily live in Brooklyn or Queens for under 1.7k a month with a far larger place and only have a 15-20 minute commute. It is very possible to live comfortably in NYC but why people choose to live squished up in Manhattan is beyond me.
    - T-hawk 14y ago
      The best place to live in New York City is actually New Jersey. Hoboken and almost all of Jersey City are under 30 minutes from many Manhattan offices by the Path subway or bus or even ferry. Rent goes very roughly 25% cheaper than Manhattan for similar digs, everything from basement studios to ultramodern luxury towers. There's plenty of supermarkets and any other businesses you need. And access to the rest of the world via car or airport (Newark) is considerably easier from NJ. Bonus: NJ sales tax is less, and you dodge the NYC income and commuter taxes. I've lived on the NJ Gold Coast and commuted to Manhattan for basically my entire professional life, and pretty satisfied with it. My 15 minute ferry ride is just long enough to decompress and relax without getting bored. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Coast_(New_Jersey) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Coast_(New_Jersey) Whatever smelly downtrodden ghettoey reputation New Jersey once had is not at all universally true. Hoboken and downtown Jersey City are first-class modern neighborhoods. There's worse areas up into JC Heights and down to Bayonne, but by and large the region served by the Path is the equal of anything in Brooklyn/Queens.
beambot 14y ago
Most people have no idea how to manage their money; therefore, $75k/year is probably an overestimate if you can soundly manage money. Besides... it's not silly; it's a generalization that (like all others) has caveats.
- daeken 14y ago
  What I'm saying is that the metric of 'happiness' to determine whether a salary is enough or not is flawed. In most major cities, $75k is simple not enough to live well, save for major purchases, and put away enough money to retire. The reason that 'happiness' isn't good here is that most people don't understand how much they actually need to save for the short and long term, but rather look at their bills and extrapolate from there. In other words, it's happiness in the short term ("are my bills covered and am I able to go out to dinner occasionally?") at the expense of the long term big picture.
  - Evbn 14y ago
    And yet this woefully imprecise factoid getsa resputtered every 3 mmonths like it's some major revelation, even though it is completely obvious that everyone who can count can figure out how much is the cost of a middle class lifestyle plus retirement plus college for kids.
    - pwthornton 14y ago
      You guys are making the US tax code out to be much simpler than it is. The more you save for retirement, the lower your taxable income is. We also have deductions for mortgage interest and student loan interest. Our system is also progressive, so a lot of people making less money have very little taxable income. Maybe you make $90,000 a year and can't fathom how someone could live off of and save off of $75,000 a year, but the difference in your take home pay is not $15,000.
      - malandrew 14y ago
        Yup. IIRC a former roommate of mine has a plan on how to get every deduction under the sun to the maximum amount and it is actually possible to pay no taxes on like $100k, but it requires putting something like $40k towards savings each year.
Retric 14y ago
At 90k in NYC you can easily cover a nice 3k / month 1br apartment and have ~2,000$ / month leftover which is enough to cover expenses and have solid savings. Edit: used wrong calculator.
- DougWebb 14y ago
  At $90K in NYC you're taking home about $58,500, or $4875/month. Spend $3k/month on rent and you're left with $468/wk for everything else in your life. Half of that can easily go towards feeding yourself in NYC.
  - Retric 14y ago
    Hmm, according to www.paycheckcity.com 90k = $5,014.58 / month after taxes which is significantly more tax than I was expecting. However, if you think 33$ on food per day is necessary your clearly doing something wrong. Learn to cook or buy more normal food or something?
    - Tyrant505 14y ago
      $33 dollars per day is not "wrong". A bottle of drink costs $4. Coffee or Tea? Egg sandwich? Noodle soup lunch special? $10 A few beers with friends? God forbid a date? Popcorn at the movies? Takeout indian or sushi? Oh and buying a steak on sale and freezing it at the same time..
      - itsybitsycoder 14y ago
        Is there a law against bag lunches in NYC? Needs and wants are not the same thing. Refusing the acknowledge that is a big reason so many people with comfortably middle/upper-middle incomes can "barely make ends meet", since as their income goes up so do the "requirements" of their lifestyles...
    - DougWebb 14y ago
      A big aspect of the NYC lifestyle is having very little space or stuff at home and living your life outside the home. Most New Yorkers don't have what anyone in the first world would consider a kitchen... at best you've got a two-burner stovetop, a toaster-oven-sized oven, maybe a microwave, a miniature refrigerator, a tiny sink, and a few square feet of counterspace. And one or two plates. Most of your meals come from the huge assortment of restaurants and delis that fill all NYC neighborhoods. For many years I lived in NJ and worked in NYC, and I typically spent $20/day for a bagel and coffee in the morning and take-out lunch from a local shop. That's not exactly an extravagant lifestyle.
ZeroGravitas 14y ago
The last time I saw this story it included the detail that the study authors specifically noted that this figure held in NY and other high cost areas. Their theory as to why that was true was that NY provided more of what was required for happiness (people, variety) for free.

by daeken 14y ago

cm2012 14y ago

You are extremely out of touch with the day to day reality of most of New York. One hour commute is really the norm, and people making 60,000 a year are on average quite comfortable here, all throughout Queens, Brooklyn, the Bronx and Staten Island. 75k is really comfortable. Rents for nice 2 bedrooms are from 1300-1800 within an hour of the city in really nice neighborhoods.

daeken 14y ago
I'm well aware of what people do, but it's something I would never do unless I had absolutely no other choice. With a one hour commute, assuming 48 working weeks a year, that's 20 days of your year that are burnt just getting to and from work! My life means more to me than money.
- jasonlotito 14y ago
  > My life means more to me than money. Do not assume that money is the reason for living an hour away from work. There are many reasons, including schooling, which is even more important with special needs children. I realize you didn't intend to say that, just making it clear however. =) On that note, don't also assume that an hour long commute means an hour wasted. As someone who makes that hour-plus long trek every day, I've learned how to fill that time. I'm a big audiobook fan, and because of the commute, I'm able to commit to reading a lot more than I would otherwise. On top of that, in the city, commuting becomes easier with public transportation. When I was living in Montreal, I could read more than just audiobooks. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but those days aren't necessarily burnt.
aerolite 14y ago
My parents made maybe 40K and we lived in the Bronx in a comfortable neighborhood when I was in high school. It took me about ~45 minutes to get to school on the subway and I saw plenty of executive-looking people on the train.

lifeguard 14y ago

Wow. Just, wow. Double the average is not enough? (36k in NY urban area) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest-income_urban_areas_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest-income_urban_areas_in_t...

daeken 14y ago
The takehome on $36k wouldn't even be able to cover my tiny (~180sqft) studio in Manhattan ($1700/mo), let alone a decent place. And that place was a steal. As I said, it's possible to live very cheaply in NYC, if you're willing to be far away from everything; I know people who travel an hour and a half each way to get to work, to save a few hundred dollars a month. I can't make that sort of tradeoff -- my time is just worth too much to me. Edit: I should note, this is the primary reason I left NYC about 6 months ago. I'm paying all of $1400/mo for a large house in CT now, and working from home. Much as I love it, living in NYC is just too crazy.
- yolesaber 14y ago
  I'm sorry my friend but that is hardly a "steal". Also, you can very easily live in Brooklyn or Queens for under 1.7k a month with a far larger place and only have a 15-20 minute commute. It is very possible to live comfortably in NYC but why people choose to live squished up in Manhattan is beyond me.
  - T-hawk 14y ago
    The best place to live in New York City is actually New Jersey. Hoboken and almost all of Jersey City are under 30 minutes from many Manhattan offices by the Path subway or bus or even ferry. Rent goes very roughly 25% cheaper than Manhattan for similar digs, everything from basement studios to ultramodern luxury towers. There's plenty of supermarkets and any other businesses you need. And access to the rest of the world via car or airport (Newark) is considerably easier from NJ. Bonus: NJ sales tax is less, and you dodge the NYC income and commuter taxes. I've lived on the NJ Gold Coast and commuted to Manhattan for basically my entire professional life, and pretty satisfied with it. My 15 minute ferry ride is just long enough to decompress and relax without getting bored. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Coast_(New_Jersey) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Coast_(New_Jersey) Whatever smelly downtrodden ghettoey reputation New Jersey once had is not at all universally true. Hoboken and downtown Jersey City are first-class modern neighborhoods. There's worse areas up into JC Heights and down to Bayonne, but by and large the region served by the Path is the equal of anything in Brooklyn/Queens.

beambot 14y ago

Most people have no idea how to manage their money; therefore, $75k/year is probably an overestimate if you can soundly manage money. Besides... it's not silly; it's a generalization that (like all others) has caveats.

daeken 14y ago
What I'm saying is that the metric of 'happiness' to determine whether a salary is enough or not is flawed. In most major cities, $75k is simple not enough to live well, save for major purchases, and put away enough money to retire. The reason that 'happiness' isn't good here is that most people don't understand how much they actually need to save for the short and long term, but rather look at their bills and extrapolate from there. In other words, it's happiness in the short term ("are my bills covered and am I able to go out to dinner occasionally?") at the expense of the long term big picture.
- Evbn 14y ago
  And yet this woefully imprecise factoid getsa resputtered every 3 mmonths like it's some major revelation, even though it is completely obvious that everyone who can count can figure out how much is the cost of a middle class lifestyle plus retirement plus college for kids.
  - pwthornton 14y ago
    You guys are making the US tax code out to be much simpler than it is. The more you save for retirement, the lower your taxable income is. We also have deductions for mortgage interest and student loan interest. Our system is also progressive, so a lot of people making less money have very little taxable income. Maybe you make $90,000 a year and can't fathom how someone could live off of and save off of $75,000 a year, but the difference in your take home pay is not $15,000.
    - malandrew 14y ago
      Yup. IIRC a former roommate of mine has a plan on how to get every deduction under the sun to the maximum amount and it is actually possible to pay no taxes on like $100k, but it requires putting something like $40k towards savings each year.

Retric 14y ago

At 90k in NYC you can easily cover a nice 3k / month 1br apartment and have ~2,000$ / month leftover which is enough to cover expenses and have solid savings. Edit: used wrong calculator.

DougWebb 14y ago
At $90K in NYC you're taking home about $58,500, or $4875/month. Spend $3k/month on rent and you're left with $468/wk for everything else in your life. Half of that can easily go towards feeding yourself in NYC.
- Retric 14y ago
  Hmm, according to www.paycheckcity.com 90k = $5,014.58 / month after taxes which is significantly more tax than I was expecting. However, if you think 33$ on food per day is necessary your clearly doing something wrong. Learn to cook or buy more normal food or something?
  - Tyrant505 14y ago
    $33 dollars per day is not "wrong". A bottle of drink costs $4. Coffee or Tea? Egg sandwich? Noodle soup lunch special? $10 A few beers with friends? God forbid a date? Popcorn at the movies? Takeout indian or sushi? Oh and buying a steak on sale and freezing it at the same time..
    - itsybitsycoder 14y ago
      Is there a law against bag lunches in NYC? Needs and wants are not the same thing. Refusing the acknowledge that is a big reason so many people with comfortably middle/upper-middle incomes can "barely make ends meet", since as their income goes up so do the "requirements" of their lifestyles...
  - DougWebb 14y ago
    A big aspect of the NYC lifestyle is having very little space or stuff at home and living your life outside the home. Most New Yorkers don't have what anyone in the first world would consider a kitchen... at best you've got a two-burner stovetop, a toaster-oven-sized oven, maybe a microwave, a miniature refrigerator, a tiny sink, and a few square feet of counterspace. And one or two plates. Most of your meals come from the huge assortment of restaurants and delis that fill all NYC neighborhoods. For many years I lived in NJ and worked in NYC, and I typically spent $20/day for a bagel and coffee in the morning and take-out lunch from a local shop. That's not exactly an extravagant lifestyle.

ZeroGravitas 14y ago

The last time I saw this story it included the detail that the study authors specifically noted that this figure held in NY and other high cost areas. Their theory as to why that was true was that NY provided more of what was required for happiness (people, variety) for free.