4 ms·

Christ alive I hope Stripe get over to the UK soon.

robotmay 14y ago
Hell, I'll invent an app just so I can use Stripe and reassure myself that it's all going to be OK and I'll never have subject myself to the existing solutions again.
StavrosK 14y ago
Paymill is a clone that looks nice: https://www.paymill.com/en-gb/ https://www.paymill.com/en-gb/
- nhangen 14y ago
  Please don't support that company of cloners (Samwer).
  - StavrosK 14y ago
    Why not? What's wrong with being the second to provide a useful service?
    - nhangen 14y ago
      http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5086824 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5086824
      - StavrosK 14y ago
        Oh, it's wrong to clone startups because it's wrong to clone startups. Got it, thanks.
        nhangen 14y ago
        Nevermind, I take my comments back. Sounds like you'd be a perfect customer for Paymill.
        StavrosK 14y ago
        To recap, your comments were basically: "Paymill is a cloned business, and thus they are bad". "Cloned businesses are bad because they are cloned". "If you won't accept my assertion without any justification, I don't want to talk to you". Do you have any actual reason for your opinion, or do you always form your beliefs from instinct and feelings?
        nhangen 14y ago
        My reasoning is simple (and has already been stated clearly) - The Samwer brothers are notorious for cloning as many hot valley startups as they can, often pixel for pixel. Might be legal, but it's certainly not an ethical way to do business. Additionally, I would never trust my business with a company that was in it for the money, especially if they could shut it down at any time, as they often do with other clones that aren't quickly adopted. Lastly, it's clear you and I have a different set of values, therefore I am uninterested in persuading you of anything. The fact that you don't see anything wrong with cloning other businesses makes you a perfect customer for one that does. Is it really so hard to understand, or are you being intentionally obtuse?
        StavrosK 14y ago
        It really is so hard to understand. We've been begging Stripe to come to Europe for ages now. They still aren't here. Paymill managed to open a company in that time, and do what Stripe does. Most companies are in it for the money, that's why they're formed. Do you think Stripe will continue existing if they don't make money? That said, the part about shutting down companies that aren't quickly adopted is the only real argument you've made in this discussion. Copying elements from a startup is ethically dubious, sure, but Paymill is providing a valuable service to people who wouldn't otherwise have it. It's "Stripe for Europe", but why is that bad? If frozen yoghurt is all the rage in the valley at the moment, is it unethical for you to open a frozen yoghurt shop in your home town?
  - traxtech 14y ago
    If you're in Europe, you can't "support" the original.
  - DoubleMalt 14y ago
    I would totally switch to Stripe if they were available in the EU. I am thankful that Paymill tries to replicate the awesomeness of Stripe. Blasting Paymill for copying the model of Stripe is not in the same category like calling distribution of copyrighted material theft. If executed well it is a net benefit for society.
    - nhangen 14y ago
      http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5086824 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5086824
  - buro9 14y ago
    Why not? Stripe isn't here, and any desire to support their innovation whilst waiting for them to arrive leads to European startups potentially missing opportunity. It's our responsibility as European startups to get money through doors, and if Paymill is here doing that for us today, then give us a good reason not to use them. If and when Stripe arrive, I'm sure that many HNers would switch to Stripe as the innovation and support is great. But fact is, they are not here yet... and the only thing that matters is how to process payments in a way that is smooth and minimises our dev time to implement. If Stripe want our business, then on the day they launch across Europe then they can fight for it. Until then, Stripe are not here... they aren't even a contender because they are not here. Startups are not going to wait for them on a promise that it will be "soon". The great thing about the Paymill API is that it is such a Stripe rip-off that if we implement out payment flow based on their API, then we have in fact given ourselves the least painful route to later transition to Stripe. Implementing Paymill gives us a more likely route to transition to Stripe than implementing one of the incumbents flows (PayPal, MoneyBookers, etc). So of all options actually available to European startups, Paymill look pretty good.
    - nhangen 14y ago
      Because these guys are notorious for copying every startup in the valley: http://www.pinspire.com/ http://www.pinspire.com/ http://www.wimdu.com/ http://www.wimdu.com/ etc
- calpaterson 14y ago
  Paymill involves a lot of paperwork and is not as straightforward as they would lead you to believe. My advice: do not spend time integrating with their API before they authorise you to do real payments.
  - StavrosK 14y ago
    Yeah, first they asked for a business certificate and a photo of an id, then they asked for a sign contract, the ToS and an imprintation (or something like that), and I don't know if they'll ask for more. We'll see.
    - calpaterson 14y ago
      Yeah, the "imprint" is a Germany thing. Every web site needs to have the name and address of the person/company responsible for it. It's a very silly German regulation but if you want to use Paymill you have to comply with it.
      - StavrosK 14y ago
        Ugh, yeah, that's it. And we're not even based in Germany!

Hell, I'll invent an app just so I can use Stripe and reassure myself that it's all going to be OK and I'll never have subject myself to the existing solutions again.

StavrosK 14y ago

Paymill is a clone that looks nice: https://www.paymill.com/en-gb/ https://www.paymill.com/en-gb/

nhangen 14y ago
Please don't support that company of cloners (Samwer).
- StavrosK 14y ago
  Why not? What's wrong with being the second to provide a useful service?
  - nhangen 14y ago
    http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5086824 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5086824
    - StavrosK 14y ago
      Oh, it's wrong to clone startups because it's wrong to clone startups. Got it, thanks.
      - nhangen 14y ago
        Nevermind, I take my comments back. Sounds like you'd be a perfect customer for Paymill.
        StavrosK 14y ago
        To recap, your comments were basically: "Paymill is a cloned business, and thus they are bad". "Cloned businesses are bad because they are cloned". "If you won't accept my assertion without any justification, I don't want to talk to you". Do you have any actual reason for your opinion, or do you always form your beliefs from instinct and feelings?
        nhangen 14y ago
        My reasoning is simple (and has already been stated clearly) - The Samwer brothers are notorious for cloning as many hot valley startups as they can, often pixel for pixel. Might be legal, but it's certainly not an ethical way to do business. Additionally, I would never trust my business with a company that was in it for the money, especially if they could shut it down at any time, as they often do with other clones that aren't quickly adopted. Lastly, it's clear you and I have a different set of values, therefore I am uninterested in persuading you of anything. The fact that you don't see anything wrong with cloning other businesses makes you a perfect customer for one that does. Is it really so hard to understand, or are you being intentionally obtuse?
        StavrosK 14y ago
        It really is so hard to understand. We've been begging Stripe to come to Europe for ages now. They still aren't here. Paymill managed to open a company in that time, and do what Stripe does. Most companies are in it for the money, that's why they're formed. Do you think Stripe will continue existing if they don't make money? That said, the part about shutting down companies that aren't quickly adopted is the only real argument you've made in this discussion. Copying elements from a startup is ethically dubious, sure, but Paymill is providing a valuable service to people who wouldn't otherwise have it. It's "Stripe for Europe", but why is that bad? If frozen yoghurt is all the rage in the valley at the moment, is it unethical for you to open a frozen yoghurt shop in your home town?
- traxtech 14y ago
  If you're in Europe, you can't "support" the original.
- DoubleMalt 14y ago
  I would totally switch to Stripe if they were available in the EU. I am thankful that Paymill tries to replicate the awesomeness of Stripe. Blasting Paymill for copying the model of Stripe is not in the same category like calling distribution of copyrighted material theft. If executed well it is a net benefit for society.
  - nhangen 14y ago
    http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5086824 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5086824
- buro9 14y ago
  Why not? Stripe isn't here, and any desire to support their innovation whilst waiting for them to arrive leads to European startups potentially missing opportunity. It's our responsibility as European startups to get money through doors, and if Paymill is here doing that for us today, then give us a good reason not to use them. If and when Stripe arrive, I'm sure that many HNers would switch to Stripe as the innovation and support is great. But fact is, they are not here yet... and the only thing that matters is how to process payments in a way that is smooth and minimises our dev time to implement. If Stripe want our business, then on the day they launch across Europe then they can fight for it. Until then, Stripe are not here... they aren't even a contender because they are not here. Startups are not going to wait for them on a promise that it will be "soon". The great thing about the Paymill API is that it is such a Stripe rip-off that if we implement out payment flow based on their API, then we have in fact given ourselves the least painful route to later transition to Stripe. Implementing Paymill gives us a more likely route to transition to Stripe than implementing one of the incumbents flows (PayPal, MoneyBookers, etc). So of all options actually available to European startups, Paymill look pretty good.
  - nhangen 14y ago
    Because these guys are notorious for copying every startup in the valley: http://www.pinspire.com/ http://www.pinspire.com/ http://www.wimdu.com/ http://www.wimdu.com/ etc
calpaterson 14y ago
Paymill involves a lot of paperwork and is not as straightforward as they would lead you to believe. My advice: do not spend time integrating with their API before they authorise you to do real payments.
- StavrosK 14y ago
  Yeah, first they asked for a business certificate and a photo of an id, then they asked for a sign contract, the ToS and an imprintation (or something like that), and I don't know if they'll ask for more. We'll see.
  - calpaterson 14y ago
    Yeah, the "imprint" is a Germany thing. Every web site needs to have the name and address of the person/company responsible for it. It's a very silly German regulation but if you want to use Paymill you have to comply with it.
    - StavrosK 14y ago
      Ugh, yeah, that's it. And we're not even based in Germany!