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You must understand why people have conspiratorial attitudes here: the CIA has on more than one occasion been involved with drug trafficking. Iran-Contra at the

by rms 18y ago

You must understand why people have conspiratorial attitudes here: the CIA has on more than one occasion been involved with drug trafficking. Iran-Contra at the very least. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking The particular conspiracy of the grandparent post doesn't make much sense though -- DEA scheduling is not what makes it hard for smaller pharma companies. Jksmith, could you explain your logic a little more with that?

iamelgringo 18y ago
There is no doubt in my mind that the CIA has trafficked in drugs. I grew up in the country between Nicaragua (The Contras) and Panama (Manuel Noriega) during the 80's. I'm sure that they still traffic drugs or worse to achieve whatever objectives they're after. But, the idea of the entire DEA being in collusion with big Pharma to keep drugs illegal is a bit silly when there are other much more straight forward answers that fit the evidence much more readily.
- tlb 18y ago
  If marijuana were readily available from pharmacies, how many people would use it instead of Vicodin or Oxycontin to treat pain? And it may be an effective antidepressant for many people. There are tens of billions of threatened revenue right there. Any other industry with that much at stake would exert substantial influence on the govt. However, marijuana growers need it to stay illegal too. Some of them are influential in CA. It's currently the largest single cash crop in the US, just because it's illegal. If it were legal, it could probably be grown and sold for the same price as corn.
  - rkowalick 18y ago
    While I know that marijuana relieves pain for certain, very specific illnesses, to say that it is a general pain relief alternative is quite naive. As to whether or not it is an adequete antidepressant, you believe what you want. I don't know of any evidence to support its effectiveness in that category of drugs.
    - gnaritas 18y ago
      Sounds like you haven't smoked much marijuana, I'd say you're wrong on both counts. I'd go so far as to say marijuana's primary use is as an anti depressant. It's a freaking make me happy/content drug for Christ sake, that's why people smoke it.
  - rms 18y ago
    As for pain, I don't think it functions as a direct substitute for opiates but in combination with opiates lower doses are needed for the same antinociceptive effect. It is probably a more direct treatment for certain kinds of nerve pain. Price shouldn't really be an object for people that are depressed: Wal-mart has a number of generic anti-depressants available for $4 and $10 for a 90 day prescription. The doctors' appointments are more expensive than the drugs themselves. Depressed people need marijuana like they need large amounts of alcohol. It would be a terrible thing if large numbers of depressed people starting self-medicating with marijuana, medical cannabis's #1 negative side effect is the tendency to exacerbate underlying mental health conditions. The anxiety/paranoia caused is very real and doesn't mix very well with depression. http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/customer_list.pdf http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/customer_list.pdf The marijuana growers in CA definitely benefit financially from the current state of affairs. Right now things are just about ideal. I would still bet that the majority of them would prefer their industry to made legitimate, despite the repercussions on their revenue. It's a political/belief thing. The price fall to tobacco levels (no government subsidies + evil tax) will take years during which profits are sky high. There will be price fixing. If I was a top marijuana grower and cannabis was legalized, I would be on the phone to the tobacco companies immediately offering my skills as a high paid consultant. It will be interesting to see what happens, I fully expect cannabis to become legal during Obama's second term. Or at least for medical marijuana to be legal in the majority of the states.
jksmith 18y ago
Lots of drugs which are scheduled in this country are over the counter in other countries. Notices that they are all generally very cheap - to make and manufacture. Sched II and III can oftentimes benefit the large US drug manfacturers, because they encourage limited access to the most lucrative drug market in the world to the second tier drug manufacturers.
jksmith 18y ago
Regarding issues of conspiracy, we tend to want to use labels which make things easy to consume, imo. Either you can take the article for face value, or I think there's a conspiracy going on. That's just not the case, IMO. We tend to see things from an on the ground perspective. Those who are right in the middle of making large governmental decisions have a very different perspective. It's not conspiracy, it's shades of grey. I could offer a couple of examples if you like.

by rms 18y ago

iamelgringo 18y ago

There is no doubt in my mind that the CIA has trafficked in drugs. I grew up in the country between Nicaragua (The Contras) and Panama (Manuel Noriega) during the 80's. I'm sure that they still traffic drugs or worse to achieve whatever objectives they're after. But, the idea of the entire DEA being in collusion with big Pharma to keep drugs illegal is a bit silly when there are other much more straight forward answers that fit the evidence much more readily.

tlb 18y ago
If marijuana were readily available from pharmacies, how many people would use it instead of Vicodin or Oxycontin to treat pain? And it may be an effective antidepressant for many people. There are tens of billions of threatened revenue right there. Any other industry with that much at stake would exert substantial influence on the govt. However, marijuana growers need it to stay illegal too. Some of them are influential in CA. It's currently the largest single cash crop in the US, just because it's illegal. If it were legal, it could probably be grown and sold for the same price as corn.
- rkowalick 18y ago
  While I know that marijuana relieves pain for certain, very specific illnesses, to say that it is a general pain relief alternative is quite naive. As to whether or not it is an adequete antidepressant, you believe what you want. I don't know of any evidence to support its effectiveness in that category of drugs.
  - gnaritas 18y ago
    Sounds like you haven't smoked much marijuana, I'd say you're wrong on both counts. I'd go so far as to say marijuana's primary use is as an anti depressant. It's a freaking make me happy/content drug for Christ sake, that's why people smoke it.
- rms 18y ago
  As for pain, I don't think it functions as a direct substitute for opiates but in combination with opiates lower doses are needed for the same antinociceptive effect. It is probably a more direct treatment for certain kinds of nerve pain. Price shouldn't really be an object for people that are depressed: Wal-mart has a number of generic anti-depressants available for $4 and $10 for a 90 day prescription. The doctors' appointments are more expensive than the drugs themselves. Depressed people need marijuana like they need large amounts of alcohol. It would be a terrible thing if large numbers of depressed people starting self-medicating with marijuana, medical cannabis's #1 negative side effect is the tendency to exacerbate underlying mental health conditions. The anxiety/paranoia caused is very real and doesn't mix very well with depression. http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/customer_list.pdf http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/customer_list.pdf The marijuana growers in CA definitely benefit financially from the current state of affairs. Right now things are just about ideal. I would still bet that the majority of them would prefer their industry to made legitimate, despite the repercussions on their revenue. It's a political/belief thing. The price fall to tobacco levels (no government subsidies + evil tax) will take years during which profits are sky high. There will be price fixing. If I was a top marijuana grower and cannabis was legalized, I would be on the phone to the tobacco companies immediately offering my skills as a high paid consultant. It will be interesting to see what happens, I fully expect cannabis to become legal during Obama's second term. Or at least for medical marijuana to be legal in the majority of the states.

jksmith 18y ago

Lots of drugs which are scheduled in this country are over the counter in other countries. Notices that they are all generally very cheap - to make and manufacture. Sched II and III can oftentimes benefit the large US drug manfacturers, because they encourage limited access to the most lucrative drug market in the world to the second tier drug manufacturers.

jksmith 18y ago

Regarding issues of conspiracy, we tend to want to use labels which make things easy to consume, imo. Either you can take the article for face value, or I think there's a conspiracy going on. That's just not the case, IMO. We tend to see things from an on the ground perspective. Those who are right in the middle of making large governmental decisions have a very different perspective. It's not conspiracy, it's shades of grey. I could offer a couple of examples if you like.