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I think this is an expression that sums up how you view yourself in comparison to other people and how you think other people view and "rank" you. I can honestl

by kahawe 14y ago

I think this is an expression that sums up how you view yourself in comparison to other people and how you think other people view and "rank" you. I can honestly not imagine that anyone has never had thoughts like this, so for better or worse, there IS something like this out there and if you need more proof then just think of all the brands and labels offering you mostly image and their name and a perceived step-up in that imaginary hierarchy.

marvin 14y ago
After a couple of years of trying to become more outgoing and understanding social mechanisms, I rate pretty high on this "ladder". But as a byproduct, I can't stand to hang out with people who actually seem to care about people's social standing. People who care a lot about fake gimmicks like these (clothes, friends, status, power) are usually shallow, self-centered and insecure; the exact opposite of the people a self-confident and secure person would want to hang out with. It's the same thing when dating; there are a lot of semi-dishonest tricks guys can use to appear more attractive to a lot of girls. But the girls that fall for these tricks are rarely very interesting on a more personal level. It's a mechanism that's cool to be aware of, but not something that any secure person would actually endorse. Unless you _need_ to interact with people like these in a professional setting or something.
- kahawe 14y ago
  > After a couple of years of trying to become more outgoing and understanding social mechanisms Could you elaborate on that or provide links, books, anything that worked for you? I agree with your view and I don't see this ever changing for me, yet I would still like to make these experiences for myself to be honest.
  - GFischer 14y ago
    I'm not the OP, and I haven't read these books, but many people swear by: Influence: the psychology of persuasion, by Robert Cialdini http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Business-Essentials/dp/006124189X http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Busine... The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature http://www.amazon.com/Red-Queen-Evolution-Human-Nature/dp/0060556579 http://www.amazon.com/Red-Queen-Evolution-Human-Nature/dp/00... One I HAVE read, and I strongly recommend is How To Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influenc... Also, I've read many people mention a lot about Neuro-Linguistic Programming. I'm usually skeptical of this stuff, but I want to read about it. I did read "The Game" by Neil Strauss... while it is not something I want to do, it is really intriguing, and he advocates NLP a lot in that book. And while I'm nerdish/socially awkward, I have a long-term relationship with my girlfriend so I don't "need" to go picking up girls :) . I look forward to the original poster's list :)
  - thoughtcriminal 14y ago
    Try Rejection Therapy: http://rejectiontherapy.com http://rejectiontherapy.com If you do a search online, you'll find lots of stories and comments of how it's helped people or even changed their life.
  - marvin 14y ago
    Sure. It's been a long journey that I started about four or five years ago. I honestly haven't been reading that much. I guess if anything, Neil Strauss's "The Game" was probably the only significant piece of writing that set me off and piqued my curiosity for social games and mechanisms. I've also read some of the darker pickup blogs (http://heartiste.wordpress.com/ http://heartiste.wordpress.com/) which are not recommended if you want to retain your faith in humanity. They do provide some insights in some social games, though, including status whoring and related things. Don't take it too seriously, but there are probably some insights to learn there. It seems to me that the best people to hang out with are the ones that are impervious to stuff like this. None of my best friends (well, maybe with one exception) would fall for the kind of manipulation that Heartiste describes. Some subreddits (/r/sex, /r/relationship_advice) have been valuable for hearing horror stories of people not standing up for themselves in a relationship setting, and why it's important to have principles. You'll hear these in real life as well. The most significant thing I've been doing has really been to get out in the world and meet as many people as possible, along the way seeing these social games first-hand. This has involved living in a different country for a year and going to almost every party or social event that presented itself. Initially it was to overcome depression/social anxiety, meet girls and make new friends, but after a few years it's turned into more of an interest in people and getting new experiences. After a while you have been in so many social situations that you stop worrying about what image you present, and see more of the personalities, motivations and insecurities behind most people's facades. I don't know how old you are (I'm 26 now) but I'd guess some form of social travelling (backpacking, maybe studying abroad) and saying yes to as many invitations as possible would be a good starting point. Also actively trying to become a better person - more fit, more friendly, less able to get manipulated or taken advantage of, more knowledgable, more secure. There's probably some confirmation bias on my end here, there are probably multiple was to get these experiences. I _do_ recommend "The Game" since it's a very fascinating account. Hope that helps.
GFischer 14y ago
While it IS a human-made fiction, the "social hierarchy" is not imaginary (as you said, there is "something out there"). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_stratification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_stratification It also depends on the society or country (ask Indians about it). Defying/misclasifiying yourself in social hierarchies can end up very badly for the one doing it, but they can be succesfully hacked (like you mention, brands prey on that). Edit: not only humans, other animals have social hierarchies as well.
mattgreenrocks 14y ago
I'm probably projecting a bit, but it's always struck me as the domain of non-creators who cannot find anything meaningful to do with their lives, so they ladder-climb everywhere they can. Many people never graduated high school in that sense.
antihero 14y ago
I did have thoughts like this, but I grew out of them when I stopped being a teenager.

by kahawe 14y ago

marvin 14y ago

After a couple of years of trying to become more outgoing and understanding social mechanisms, I rate pretty high on this "ladder". But as a byproduct, I can't stand to hang out with people who actually seem to care about people's social standing. People who care a lot about fake gimmicks like these (clothes, friends, status, power) are usually shallow, self-centered and insecure; the exact opposite of the people a self-confident and secure person would want to hang out with. It's the same thing when dating; there are a lot of semi-dishonest tricks guys can use to appear more attractive to a lot of girls. But the girls that fall for these tricks are rarely very interesting on a more personal level. It's a mechanism that's cool to be aware of, but not something that any secure person would actually endorse. Unless you _need_ to interact with people like these in a professional setting or something.

kahawe 14y ago
> After a couple of years of trying to become more outgoing and understanding social mechanisms Could you elaborate on that or provide links, books, anything that worked for you? I agree with your view and I don't see this ever changing for me, yet I would still like to make these experiences for myself to be honest.
- GFischer 14y ago
  I'm not the OP, and I haven't read these books, but many people swear by: Influence: the psychology of persuasion, by Robert Cialdini http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Business-Essentials/dp/006124189X http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Busine... The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature http://www.amazon.com/Red-Queen-Evolution-Human-Nature/dp/0060556579 http://www.amazon.com/Red-Queen-Evolution-Human-Nature/dp/00... One I HAVE read, and I strongly recommend is How To Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influenc... Also, I've read many people mention a lot about Neuro-Linguistic Programming. I'm usually skeptical of this stuff, but I want to read about it. I did read "The Game" by Neil Strauss... while it is not something I want to do, it is really intriguing, and he advocates NLP a lot in that book. And while I'm nerdish/socially awkward, I have a long-term relationship with my girlfriend so I don't "need" to go picking up girls :) . I look forward to the original poster's list :)
- thoughtcriminal 14y ago
  Try Rejection Therapy: http://rejectiontherapy.com http://rejectiontherapy.com If you do a search online, you'll find lots of stories and comments of how it's helped people or even changed their life.
- marvin 14y ago
  Sure. It's been a long journey that I started about four or five years ago. I honestly haven't been reading that much. I guess if anything, Neil Strauss's "The Game" was probably the only significant piece of writing that set me off and piqued my curiosity for social games and mechanisms. I've also read some of the darker pickup blogs (http://heartiste.wordpress.com/ http://heartiste.wordpress.com/) which are not recommended if you want to retain your faith in humanity. They do provide some insights in some social games, though, including status whoring and related things. Don't take it too seriously, but there are probably some insights to learn there. It seems to me that the best people to hang out with are the ones that are impervious to stuff like this. None of my best friends (well, maybe with one exception) would fall for the kind of manipulation that Heartiste describes. Some subreddits (/r/sex, /r/relationship_advice) have been valuable for hearing horror stories of people not standing up for themselves in a relationship setting, and why it's important to have principles. You'll hear these in real life as well. The most significant thing I've been doing has really been to get out in the world and meet as many people as possible, along the way seeing these social games first-hand. This has involved living in a different country for a year and going to almost every party or social event that presented itself. Initially it was to overcome depression/social anxiety, meet girls and make new friends, but after a few years it's turned into more of an interest in people and getting new experiences. After a while you have been in so many social situations that you stop worrying about what image you present, and see more of the personalities, motivations and insecurities behind most people's facades. I don't know how old you are (I'm 26 now) but I'd guess some form of social travelling (backpacking, maybe studying abroad) and saying yes to as many invitations as possible would be a good starting point. Also actively trying to become a better person - more fit, more friendly, less able to get manipulated or taken advantage of, more knowledgable, more secure. There's probably some confirmation bias on my end here, there are probably multiple was to get these experiences. I _do_ recommend "The Game" since it's a very fascinating account. Hope that helps.

GFischer 14y ago

While it IS a human-made fiction, the "social hierarchy" is not imaginary (as you said, there is "something out there"). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_stratification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_stratification It also depends on the society or country (ask Indians about it). Defying/misclasifiying yourself in social hierarchies can end up very badly for the one doing it, but they can be succesfully hacked (like you mention, brands prey on that). Edit: not only humans, other animals have social hierarchies as well.

mattgreenrocks 14y ago

I'm probably projecting a bit, but it's always struck me as the domain of non-creators who cannot find anything meaningful to do with their lives, so they ladder-climb everywhere they can. Many people never graduated high school in that sense.

antihero 14y ago

I did have thoughts like this, but I grew out of them when I stopped being a teenager.