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I considered moving to SF but chose Austin instead. I refuse to live in a state with such a dysfunctional government and ridiculously high taxes. Some of the sa

I considered moving to SF but chose Austin instead. I refuse to live in a state with such a dysfunctional government and ridiculously high taxes. Some of the same reasons I left NY. You can do tech anywhere. You do not need to live in the bay area. If you really like the city pick a place (like Austin) with inexpensive direct flights and go a few times a month. You'll still save money.

jasonshen 14y ago
You CAN do tech anywhere, just as you CAN be a banker outside of NYC or an actor outside of LA. Doesn't mean it's the most efficient or effective way. I have lots of respect for people who choose to live in other parts of the world but to suggest that there's not much difference between living in SF or Austin for someone interested in starting or working for a successful technology firm is inaccurate. I don't count freelance development as "doing tech" as it's equivalent to being a "day-trader" vs banker or "youtube star" vs actor.
- aliston 14y ago
  ^This. I've lived in both SF and Austin. Austin is a bad ass city. In terms of quality of life, as a young and single male, it is a complete and total no brainer that Austin is better than SF. Better nightlife, more attractive women, cheaper cost of living, less bums, more sunlight, better weather (if you prefer hot to cold), better urban/outdoor balance... BUT, in terms of the startup scene, SF is in another league. Austin has some successful startups, but they seem to be largely enterprise focused. It's going to be a long time before you see a Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Yelp, Dropbox etc. founded here. If you're doing a startup, particularly in the consumer space, SF is the place to be.
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    Are the women really more attractive in Austin? One of the things mentioned in the article is that in SF, people are in shape. How are things in Austin?
    - pk2200 14y ago
      I've lived for several years in Silicon Valley and Austin, and would have to agree that Austin has more attractive young women. The University of Texas probably has a lot do with it. It also helps that that Austin has 10-11 months of warm weather (January is our winter), so you're seeing more skin here, to put it bluntly. :) And yes, Austinites are healthy and in shape. Take any survey like this with a grain of salt, but Austin was recently rated the most health conscious city in America. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/08/most-health-conscious-us-cities-america_n_2233198.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/08/most-health-conscio...
      - caniszczyk 14y ago
        Austin has more in shape and attractive people by FAR. I moved to SF a couple years ago and moved back... SF was like clowntown when it came to fitness... Austin is orders of magnitude better when it comes to the fitness scene. I mean shit, I'm running a 5km this Sunday in a gorilla suit... http://austingorillarun.com/ http://austingorillarun.com/
    - da02 14y ago
      Maybe date in California and move to Austin? I also heard Austin is like a Californian oasis in TX (when it comes to politics/race/etc.) There is also visiting a different country if you want to find a spouse. The foreigner mystique (esp. if you are pale and Caucasian) is still somewhat alive... based on the vlogs/blogs I've read about: South Korea, Japan, China, etc. Foreigners who blog/vlog eventually talk about foreign guys who date outside of their league because of the foreigner mystique. "Why are so many beautiful women have ugly white boyfriends?" The paleness comes in handy because of some dumb stereotype: People who are pale work in offices, not in fields, and are wealthier.
      - w1ntermute 14y ago
        Oh, there's no doubt that there's a sizable portion of East Asian women who have a Caucasian fetish. While this is good for dating and hooking up (even the most clueless and ugly white guy will get so much action in Tokyo, Shanghai, or Seoul), I disagree that it's a good basis for a marriage, particularly a cross-cultural one. However, I'm not sure what this has to do with SF vs Austin, other than for the sizable Asian population in SF (in which regard Austin isn't "a Californian oasis in TX"). In that regard though, SF is a good place to be, as the Caucasian fetish is in full effect among Asian American women as well: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/01/29/us/20110130mixedrace.html http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/01/29/us/20110130mix...
  - usaar333 14y ago
    > better weather (if you prefer hot to cold) You are the first person I've ever heard claim this. :) I found Austin's humid 90 degree summers rather unpleasant.
    - aliston 14y ago
      Heh... "90 degree summers" is mild. More like 105. Summer is brutal, though I actually haven't found it all that humid. That said, we were throwing pool parties in November while my friends in SF were walking around in coats. Sept-Nov is nice in SF, but otherwise it was too cold and windy for me. I lived in soma, though -- if I were to do it again, I think I'd live in the Haight, mission, pac heights or the marina and I'd probably have a different experience. The variance between neighborhoods in terms of climate and culture seems to be greater in SF than I've found in Austin.
  - caniszczyk 14y ago
    Totally agree man on everything you said. But please stop the influx of Californians to Austin... I don't want them to ruin Austin the same way SF and LA are ruined...
  - mindcrime 14y ago
    Austin has some successful startups, but they seem to be largely enterprise focused. And? Is that supposed to be bad or something? I don't know about you, but I find consumer webapp startups to be dead boring. Who cares about building yet another way for people to share pictures of cats doing stupid shit, or whatever? At least with enterprise software, you're doing something that's actually improving someone's productivity, helping other businesses grow and prosper, etc. Disclaimer: I am the founder of a (non-SF based) enterprise focused startup. So, yeah, I'm a little bit biased. :-)
- yesimahuman 14y ago
  Those analogies aren't made equal. There is nothing more equalizing than your ability to sell software to random strangers over the internet. It truly can be done from anywhere and potentially in a more efficient way than in SF.
  - jasonshen 14y ago
    Selling software over the internet to strangers is only a very small part of what "doing tech" is. Like I said, you could "act" in a local volunteer theater in Nebraska but to say you can "be an actor" anywhere is inaccurate. If you want to grow beyond a 1-5 person shop, if you want to build incredible software that is used by hundreds of thousands or millions of people, you need a critical mass of great engineers, designers, marketers, etc working together. Sure virtual teams are possible but just ask Jason Evanish (OP) about how Kissmetrics went in the reverse direction - from virtual to in-person and how that's transformed their business for the better.
    - yesimahuman 14y ago
      That's incredibly short sighted. There are too many examples of large tech companies not in the valley or SF for that to be true. They might not be household names but that doesn't mean they aren't killing it.
      - dyno12345 14y ago
        I think conditional probability is more informative than number of examples
- driverdan 14y ago
  What's funny Jason is that we met through a mutual friend in 2011 on one of my trips to SF. RideJoy had just launched and you were looking for talent. I was interested in your startup but wasn't interested in a job. > I don't count freelance development as "doing tech" as it's equivalent to being a "day-trader" vs banker or "youtube star" vs actor. For every big name actor there are 1000 serving food to make ends meet. For every investment banker managing billions there are 1000 working in cubicles analyzing obscure sectors and securities. Are you implying that their work is more desirable and/or more real than a successful day trader or YouTube star? I get what you're trying to say and I completely disagree. I think my clients, many of which are startups who happily hire freelancers, would too. I really dislike this condescending attitude some startup founders and investors have. If you're a freelancer, run a "lifestyle business", or bootstrap with a real business model and and target long term growth you're looked down upon. It's bullshit.
xradionut 14y ago
Here in Texas we have dysfunctional government and ridiculously shitty services.
- Cyranix 14y ago
  As a former Austinite, I can say that it's very easy to forget that you're in Texas when living in Austin. This creates the good feeling of being an oasis and the bad feeling of being a bubble.
- yummies 14y ago
  No government pleases everyone and no government is perfect. However, from someone who has been a citizen of both Austin, San Francisco, and other cities, Texas/Austin, despite some shortcomings, is to me clearly the less dysfunctional government. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has been citizens of both cities and honestly thinks otherwise. I'm not saying Austin is better than San Francisco or anything super subjective like that, but only the mildly subjective assertion that the government is less dysfunctional in Austin, compared to SF.
mstefanko 14y ago
"I refuse to live in a state with such a dysfunctional government"...so you picked Texas..hahahah You can absolutely do tech anywhere. But it is a very different experience. I had the exact same rationale before moving to the bay area. It was a tough decision to make, even loving the city, was it really worth it. Here, you're surrounded by tech. It is literally everywhere. When you have conversations with people, you no longer have to change your stories, your talking points, your vocab, people actually understand what you're talking about here. Sitting in a coffee shop, or on the bus, almost all you hear is tech conversations. If it's a passion, if it's what you love, it's worth every single penny to be in the heart of it. I've never been more motivated in my life.
_pius 14y ago
I considered moving to SF but chose Austin instead. I refuse to live in a state with such a dysfunctional government ... You do realize you live in Texas, right?
- Roybatty 14y ago
  You do realize that there are people outside of your little world that aren't leftists/socialists/fascists, right?
  - addlepate 14y ago
    Who said anything about leftism? The quote was about dysfunctional government. You do realize that there are dysfunctional governments outside of leftism/socialism/fascism, right?
  - beatpanda 14y ago
    You do realize that, objectively, Martin Luther King was more instrumental in the Civil Rights movement than Lyndon Johnson was, right? Oh, wait, you might not, because the Texas Board of Education took it upon themselves to re-write history. Low taxes are cool and all, but I don't see how anyone could live in peace with that public school system.
    - hindsightbias 14y ago
      Anonymous wrote the Declaration of Independence too, apparently.
    - joonix 14y ago
      Let's face it: American governmental bodies are dysfunctional at almost every level. Most people live in California, Texas, Florida, and New York. All are poorly managed. And then there's the federal government sitting on top. The key to thriving in the US is to have a high net worth so you can feel independent of this dysfunctional government. And then ignore all the stressful noise in the crisis-obsessed news cycle.
  - 14y ago
hnriot 14y ago
But now you're living in TX? Despite Austin being an enclave of politically progressive views, you're still surrounded by well armed pickup truck driving rednecks on their way to the Dairy Queen in 110" heat? Paying the SF "tax" is worth every penny in my opinion.
- zippy 14y ago
  on their way to the Dairy Queen in 110" heat? How hot is it? Almost 10'
- gyardley 14y ago
  I live in small-town Texas. Yes, people here are (on average) conservative and well-armed, and the most common vehicle is a Ford F150, but I wouldn't describe anyone here as a redneck. They're happy, polite, friendly, community-minded people. I'm not entirely sure I could say the same thing about San Francisco, where I didn't like living at all. But that's fine, isn't it? Different cultures for different types of people.

jasonshen 14y ago

You CAN do tech anywhere, just as you CAN be a banker outside of NYC or an actor outside of LA. Doesn't mean it's the most efficient or effective way. I have lots of respect for people who choose to live in other parts of the world but to suggest that there's not much difference between living in SF or Austin for someone interested in starting or working for a successful technology firm is inaccurate. I don't count freelance development as "doing tech" as it's equivalent to being a "day-trader" vs banker or "youtube star" vs actor.

aliston 14y ago
^This. I've lived in both SF and Austin. Austin is a bad ass city. In terms of quality of life, as a young and single male, it is a complete and total no brainer that Austin is better than SF. Better nightlife, more attractive women, cheaper cost of living, less bums, more sunlight, better weather (if you prefer hot to cold), better urban/outdoor balance... BUT, in terms of the startup scene, SF is in another league. Austin has some successful startups, but they seem to be largely enterprise focused. It's going to be a long time before you see a Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Yelp, Dropbox etc. founded here. If you're doing a startup, particularly in the consumer space, SF is the place to be.
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  Are the women really more attractive in Austin? One of the things mentioned in the article is that in SF, people are in shape. How are things in Austin?
  - pk2200 14y ago
    I've lived for several years in Silicon Valley and Austin, and would have to agree that Austin has more attractive young women. The University of Texas probably has a lot do with it. It also helps that that Austin has 10-11 months of warm weather (January is our winter), so you're seeing more skin here, to put it bluntly. :) And yes, Austinites are healthy and in shape. Take any survey like this with a grain of salt, but Austin was recently rated the most health conscious city in America. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/08/most-health-conscious-us-cities-america_n_2233198.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/08/most-health-conscio...
    - caniszczyk 14y ago
      Austin has more in shape and attractive people by FAR. I moved to SF a couple years ago and moved back... SF was like clowntown when it came to fitness... Austin is orders of magnitude better when it comes to the fitness scene. I mean shit, I'm running a 5km this Sunday in a gorilla suit... http://austingorillarun.com/ http://austingorillarun.com/
  - da02 14y ago
    Maybe date in California and move to Austin? I also heard Austin is like a Californian oasis in TX (when it comes to politics/race/etc.) There is also visiting a different country if you want to find a spouse. The foreigner mystique (esp. if you are pale and Caucasian) is still somewhat alive... based on the vlogs/blogs I've read about: South Korea, Japan, China, etc. Foreigners who blog/vlog eventually talk about foreign guys who date outside of their league because of the foreigner mystique. "Why are so many beautiful women have ugly white boyfriends?" The paleness comes in handy because of some dumb stereotype: People who are pale work in offices, not in fields, and are wealthier.
    - w1ntermute 14y ago
      Oh, there's no doubt that there's a sizable portion of East Asian women who have a Caucasian fetish. While this is good for dating and hooking up (even the most clueless and ugly white guy will get so much action in Tokyo, Shanghai, or Seoul), I disagree that it's a good basis for a marriage, particularly a cross-cultural one. However, I'm not sure what this has to do with SF vs Austin, other than for the sizable Asian population in SF (in which regard Austin isn't "a Californian oasis in TX"). In that regard though, SF is a good place to be, as the Caucasian fetish is in full effect among Asian American women as well: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/01/29/us/20110130mixedrace.html http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/01/29/us/20110130mix...
- usaar333 14y ago
  > better weather (if you prefer hot to cold) You are the first person I've ever heard claim this. :) I found Austin's humid 90 degree summers rather unpleasant.
  - aliston 14y ago
    Heh... "90 degree summers" is mild. More like 105. Summer is brutal, though I actually haven't found it all that humid. That said, we were throwing pool parties in November while my friends in SF were walking around in coats. Sept-Nov is nice in SF, but otherwise it was too cold and windy for me. I lived in soma, though -- if I were to do it again, I think I'd live in the Haight, mission, pac heights or the marina and I'd probably have a different experience. The variance between neighborhoods in terms of climate and culture seems to be greater in SF than I've found in Austin.
- caniszczyk 14y ago
  Totally agree man on everything you said. But please stop the influx of Californians to Austin... I don't want them to ruin Austin the same way SF and LA are ruined...
- mindcrime 14y ago
  Austin has some successful startups, but they seem to be largely enterprise focused. And? Is that supposed to be bad or something? I don't know about you, but I find consumer webapp startups to be dead boring. Who cares about building yet another way for people to share pictures of cats doing stupid shit, or whatever? At least with enterprise software, you're doing something that's actually improving someone's productivity, helping other businesses grow and prosper, etc. Disclaimer: I am the founder of a (non-SF based) enterprise focused startup. So, yeah, I'm a little bit biased. :-)
yesimahuman 14y ago
Those analogies aren't made equal. There is nothing more equalizing than your ability to sell software to random strangers over the internet. It truly can be done from anywhere and potentially in a more efficient way than in SF.
- jasonshen 14y ago
  Selling software over the internet to strangers is only a very small part of what "doing tech" is. Like I said, you could "act" in a local volunteer theater in Nebraska but to say you can "be an actor" anywhere is inaccurate. If you want to grow beyond a 1-5 person shop, if you want to build incredible software that is used by hundreds of thousands or millions of people, you need a critical mass of great engineers, designers, marketers, etc working together. Sure virtual teams are possible but just ask Jason Evanish (OP) about how Kissmetrics went in the reverse direction - from virtual to in-person and how that's transformed their business for the better.
  - yesimahuman 14y ago
    That's incredibly short sighted. There are too many examples of large tech companies not in the valley or SF for that to be true. They might not be household names but that doesn't mean they aren't killing it.
    - dyno12345 14y ago
      I think conditional probability is more informative than number of examples
driverdan 14y ago
What's funny Jason is that we met through a mutual friend in 2011 on one of my trips to SF. RideJoy had just launched and you were looking for talent. I was interested in your startup but wasn't interested in a job. > I don't count freelance development as "doing tech" as it's equivalent to being a "day-trader" vs banker or "youtube star" vs actor. For every big name actor there are 1000 serving food to make ends meet. For every investment banker managing billions there are 1000 working in cubicles analyzing obscure sectors and securities. Are you implying that their work is more desirable and/or more real than a successful day trader or YouTube star? I get what you're trying to say and I completely disagree. I think my clients, many of which are startups who happily hire freelancers, would too. I really dislike this condescending attitude some startup founders and investors have. If you're a freelancer, run a "lifestyle business", or bootstrap with a real business model and and target long term growth you're looked down upon. It's bullshit.

xradionut 14y ago

Here in Texas we have dysfunctional government and ridiculously shitty services.

Cyranix 14y ago
As a former Austinite, I can say that it's very easy to forget that you're in Texas when living in Austin. This creates the good feeling of being an oasis and the bad feeling of being a bubble.
yummies 14y ago
No government pleases everyone and no government is perfect. However, from someone who has been a citizen of both Austin, San Francisco, and other cities, Texas/Austin, despite some shortcomings, is to me clearly the less dysfunctional government. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has been citizens of both cities and honestly thinks otherwise. I'm not saying Austin is better than San Francisco or anything super subjective like that, but only the mildly subjective assertion that the government is less dysfunctional in Austin, compared to SF.

mstefanko 14y ago

"I refuse to live in a state with such a dysfunctional government"...so you picked Texas..hahahah You can absolutely do tech anywhere. But it is a very different experience. I had the exact same rationale before moving to the bay area. It was a tough decision to make, even loving the city, was it really worth it. Here, you're surrounded by tech. It is literally everywhere. When you have conversations with people, you no longer have to change your stories, your talking points, your vocab, people actually understand what you're talking about here. Sitting in a coffee shop, or on the bus, almost all you hear is tech conversations. If it's a passion, if it's what you love, it's worth every single penny to be in the heart of it. I've never been more motivated in my life.

_pius 14y ago

I considered moving to SF but chose Austin instead. I refuse to live in a state with such a dysfunctional government ... You do realize you live in Texas, right?

Roybatty 14y ago
You do realize that there are people outside of your little world that aren't leftists/socialists/fascists, right?
- addlepate 14y ago
  Who said anything about leftism? The quote was about dysfunctional government. You do realize that there are dysfunctional governments outside of leftism/socialism/fascism, right?
- beatpanda 14y ago
  You do realize that, objectively, Martin Luther King was more instrumental in the Civil Rights movement than Lyndon Johnson was, right? Oh, wait, you might not, because the Texas Board of Education took it upon themselves to re-write history. Low taxes are cool and all, but I don't see how anyone could live in peace with that public school system.
  - hindsightbias 14y ago
    Anonymous wrote the Declaration of Independence too, apparently.
  - joonix 14y ago
    Let's face it: American governmental bodies are dysfunctional at almost every level. Most people live in California, Texas, Florida, and New York. All are poorly managed. And then there's the federal government sitting on top. The key to thriving in the US is to have a high net worth so you can feel independent of this dysfunctional government. And then ignore all the stressful noise in the crisis-obsessed news cycle.
- 14y ago

hnriot 14y ago

But now you're living in TX? Despite Austin being an enclave of politically progressive views, you're still surrounded by well armed pickup truck driving rednecks on their way to the Dairy Queen in 110" heat? Paying the SF "tax" is worth every penny in my opinion.

zippy 14y ago
on their way to the Dairy Queen in 110" heat? How hot is it? Almost 10'
gyardley 14y ago
I live in small-town Texas. Yes, people here are (on average) conservative and well-armed, and the most common vehicle is a Ford F150, but I wouldn't describe anyone here as a redneck. They're happy, polite, friendly, community-minded people. I'm not entirely sure I could say the same thing about San Francisco, where I didn't like living at all. But that's fine, isn't it? Different cultures for different types of people.