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This might be informative: http://poker.cs.ualberta.ca/ http://poker.cs.ualberta.ca/ Some variants of poker are much easier than others. Texas Hold'em is con

This might be informative: http://poker.cs.ualberta.ca/ http://poker.cs.ualberta.ca/ Some variants of poker are much easier than others. Texas Hold'em is considered to be one of the most strategically challenging poker games and there has been quite a bit of research on Hold'em bots. The current state of the art is this: computer players can defeat human players below the professional level, but professional players still run circles around the computer.

heyitsnick 14y ago
The bot you posted is almost certainly tougher than the best FL heads up players in the world now. I have been a professional player in the game for 5 years now, i'm not the best in the world, but i have discussed strategy with some of them. I don't think any would sit down against this bot, and it is not the toughest (see: annual poker bot competition; rubot i believe is much stronger). There is a HU FL cash game machine in casinos in Nevada. You can find it in the Aria and other places, i think. It is rake free (i.e. the house doesn't have an 'advantage'), it is a fair deal. You can go and play it all day 24/7 if you wish. You can play up to $100/200 and $200/400 i believe, and hands are dealt very fast. Despite some failed attempts, you won't find today any professionals sitting there "running rings" around these machines and making bank.
- betterunix 14y ago
  Sorry, I should probably have been more clear: I was referring to no-limit games. I did not know that fixed-limit bots had become so advanced that they were beating the best human players, although I am not too surprised (I was paying more attention to this a few years ago). Do you happen to know what the current status of no-limit bots is, or the current status of multiple-player games?
  - heyitsnick 14y ago
    Well the UoA page you linked to is mostly about HU FL, not NL (Polaris, Hyperborian), but they have now expanded into NL and ring games too. I'm not sure on the theory-side how well they compare to humans; however i do know that cash game bots have been discovered beating cash games, both HU and NL, on online sites in the past.
- TylerE 14y ago
  But isn't fixed limit a much easier game, generally speaking, than PL or NL?
  - heyitsnick 14y ago
    What does "easier game" mean, generally speaking? The game tree is much smaller, for sure, so it is more attractive for those looking to "solve" a (subset) of it. For a human to learn and become an expert winning player? I doubt it.
sejje 14y ago
Agree with nick. There's still the NL frontier, but FL seems to be done.
- heyitsnick 14y ago
  So just to be clear, I don't think researchers are actually close to "solving" the game. They are just much better than humans now, at least heads up, much like chess.
logn 14y ago
No Limit Texas Holdem is strategically challenging, difficult, and unsolved. Computers are excellent and can be better than most humans at Limit Holdem.

heyitsnick 14y ago

The bot you posted is almost certainly tougher than the best FL heads up players in the world now. I have been a professional player in the game for 5 years now, i'm not the best in the world, but i have discussed strategy with some of them. I don't think any would sit down against this bot, and it is not the toughest (see: annual poker bot competition; rubot i believe is much stronger). There is a HU FL cash game machine in casinos in Nevada. You can find it in the Aria and other places, i think. It is rake free (i.e. the house doesn't have an 'advantage'), it is a fair deal. You can go and play it all day 24/7 if you wish. You can play up to $100/200 and $200/400 i believe, and hands are dealt very fast. Despite some failed attempts, you won't find today any professionals sitting there "running rings" around these machines and making bank.

betterunix 14y ago
Sorry, I should probably have been more clear: I was referring to no-limit games. I did not know that fixed-limit bots had become so advanced that they were beating the best human players, although I am not too surprised (I was paying more attention to this a few years ago). Do you happen to know what the current status of no-limit bots is, or the current status of multiple-player games?
- heyitsnick 14y ago
  Well the UoA page you linked to is mostly about HU FL, not NL (Polaris, Hyperborian), but they have now expanded into NL and ring games too. I'm not sure on the theory-side how well they compare to humans; however i do know that cash game bots have been discovered beating cash games, both HU and NL, on online sites in the past.
TylerE 14y ago
But isn't fixed limit a much easier game, generally speaking, than PL or NL?
- heyitsnick 14y ago
  What does "easier game" mean, generally speaking? The game tree is much smaller, for sure, so it is more attractive for those looking to "solve" a (subset) of it. For a human to learn and become an expert winning player? I doubt it.

sejje 14y ago

Agree with nick. There's still the NL frontier, but FL seems to be done.

heyitsnick 14y ago
So just to be clear, I don't think researchers are actually close to "solving" the game. They are just much better than humans now, at least heads up, much like chess.

logn 14y ago

No Limit Texas Holdem is strategically challenging, difficult, and unsolved. Computers are excellent and can be better than most humans at Limit Holdem.