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Does some other body write laws? It's 100% justified to criticize congress if you actually want to change things; a prosecutor can only prosecute for violations

Does some other body write laws? It's 100% justified to criticize congress if you actually want to change things; a prosecutor can only prosecute for violations of the law.

scott_s 14y ago
Prosecutors routinely use their own discretion in both deciding what to prosecute, and how severe of a sentence they will pursue. To say "Hey, the law is the law, I'm just doing my job by enforcing it" denies this reality, and serves to remove her own agency from her actions.
- res0nat0r 14y ago
  Six months in a minimum security jail seems perfectly reasonable to me for repeatedly breaking the law and in no way some sort of "overreach" or "witch hunt". Her job was to find a settlement acceptable to both parties.
  - scott_s 14y ago
    Had they gone to trial, however, he was likely facing 7 years, according to another article on the front page: http://www.volokh.com/2013/01/16/the-criminal-charges-against-aaron-swartz-part-2-prosecutorial-discretion/ http://www.volokh.com/2013/01/16/the-criminal-charges-agains...
    - res0nat0r 14y ago
      Correct. He could have gone to trial, or taken the 6 month plea bargain.
    - mpyne 14y ago
      In fairness to the prosecution, pushing for the same exact sentence that the defendant refused to accept on a "gracious" plea bargain is poor economic policy. If the plea bargain sentence is really sufficient then there needs to be incentive to take the plea. 7 years is far less than the maximum sentence so she's still correct in saying they didn't push for the maximum (pending other evidence that might come out).
      - scott_s 14y ago
        Not doing it is poor strategy, yes, but that doesn't mean that we have to accept it as good public policy. I found the recently posted paper on the German system enlightening: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5059044 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5059044
  - dinkumthinkum 14y ago
    People get less prison time for rape and attempted murder. Come on.
    - res0nat0r 14y ago
      Less than 6 months? Sounds like an anomaly.
  - ataggart 14y ago
    I not clear on how incarceration is reasonable punishment for someone convicted of a non-violent crime and who is not a physical danger to anyone.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
      Some guy breaks into your house while you're away and steals all your valuables, including the contents of a safe he found. What do you think his punishment should be if caught?
      - ataggart 14y ago
        The point is what should not be the punishment, namely locking him up with actual violent criminals, thus in turn subject to actual violence, rape, etc.
tossacct 14y ago
Your comment is correct, but it is incomplete and avoids the real issue with "actually changing things". "Actually changing things" may involve "criticizing congress" but I expect it to be rather more complicated. I think that all of the players in this case should have exercised discretion. The fact that so many people (including the citizens of America) allowed this situation to occur is the tragedy. I think that the Aaron Swartz tragedy is not an example of an acute failure in America's legal system that we can blame on any specific element: the prosecutor, the congress that passed the law, or the court system that allowed this legal case to proceed as long as it did. I think the legal case is an example of a complete breakdown of America's legal system. In America we have 3 general wings of government that all have a hand in the legal system: Legislative (e.g. Congress) that writes the laws. Executive (e.g. prosecutor) that prosecutes potential violations of the laws Judicial (e.g. the court and judge) that decides whether potential violations of the law are actual violations I think we can justifiably criticize Ortiz and congress and the judge and Aaron and The American People for their roles in this mess, and I expect that all of them will need to improve before the situation does. All of the players had opportunities to exercise good judgement and they all failed when presented these opportunities.
- jack-r-abbit 14y ago
  > I think we can justifiably criticize [snip] Aaron [snip] for {his role} in this mess Thank you! I think this is the first time I have read a comment on HN about this whole mess that actually puts some of the responsibility back on Aaron. He had several opportunities to exercise good judgement. Like the first time he had to alter his virtual appearance to regain access after he had been discovered and cut off. They didn't yet know who it was. That was a huge missed opportunity right there. It all would have been over.
rhizome 14y ago
You're missing the "hey, I was just doing my job," part.
- lclarkmichalek 14y ago
  I never said the prosecutor could not be criticized.
  - rhizome 14y ago
    The only reason she brought up Congress was to shift blame.

Does some other body write laws? It's 100% justified to criticize congress if you actually want to change things; a prosecutor can only prosecute for violations of the law.

scott_s 14y ago

Prosecutors routinely use their own discretion in both deciding what to prosecute, and how severe of a sentence they will pursue. To say "Hey, the law is the law, I'm just doing my job by enforcing it" denies this reality, and serves to remove her own agency from her actions.

res0nat0r 14y ago
Six months in a minimum security jail seems perfectly reasonable to me for repeatedly breaking the law and in no way some sort of "overreach" or "witch hunt". Her job was to find a settlement acceptable to both parties.
- scott_s 14y ago
  Had they gone to trial, however, he was likely facing 7 years, according to another article on the front page: http://www.volokh.com/2013/01/16/the-criminal-charges-against-aaron-swartz-part-2-prosecutorial-discretion/ http://www.volokh.com/2013/01/16/the-criminal-charges-agains...
  - res0nat0r 14y ago
    Correct. He could have gone to trial, or taken the 6 month plea bargain.
  - mpyne 14y ago
    In fairness to the prosecution, pushing for the same exact sentence that the defendant refused to accept on a "gracious" plea bargain is poor economic policy. If the plea bargain sentence is really sufficient then there needs to be incentive to take the plea. 7 years is far less than the maximum sentence so she's still correct in saying they didn't push for the maximum (pending other evidence that might come out).
    - scott_s 14y ago
      Not doing it is poor strategy, yes, but that doesn't mean that we have to accept it as good public policy. I found the recently posted paper on the German system enlightening: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5059044 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5059044
- dinkumthinkum 14y ago
  People get less prison time for rape and attempted murder. Come on.
  - res0nat0r 14y ago
    Less than 6 months? Sounds like an anomaly.
- ataggart 14y ago
  I not clear on how incarceration is reasonable punishment for someone convicted of a non-violent crime and who is not a physical danger to anyone.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
    Some guy breaks into your house while you're away and steals all your valuables, including the contents of a safe he found. What do you think his punishment should be if caught?
    - ataggart 14y ago
      The point is what should not be the punishment, namely locking him up with actual violent criminals, thus in turn subject to actual violence, rape, etc.

tossacct 14y ago

Your comment is correct, but it is incomplete and avoids the real issue with "actually changing things". "Actually changing things" may involve "criticizing congress" but I expect it to be rather more complicated. I think that all of the players in this case should have exercised discretion. The fact that so many people (including the citizens of America) allowed this situation to occur is the tragedy. I think that the Aaron Swartz tragedy is not an example of an acute failure in America's legal system that we can blame on any specific element: the prosecutor, the congress that passed the law, or the court system that allowed this legal case to proceed as long as it did. I think the legal case is an example of a complete breakdown of America's legal system. In America we have 3 general wings of government that all have a hand in the legal system: Legislative (e.g. Congress) that writes the laws. Executive (e.g. prosecutor) that prosecutes potential violations of the laws Judicial (e.g. the court and judge) that decides whether potential violations of the law are actual violations I think we can justifiably criticize Ortiz and congress and the judge and Aaron and The American People for their roles in this mess, and I expect that all of them will need to improve before the situation does. All of the players had opportunities to exercise good judgement and they all failed when presented these opportunities.

jack-r-abbit 14y ago
> I think we can justifiably criticize [snip] Aaron [snip] for {his role} in this mess Thank you! I think this is the first time I have read a comment on HN about this whole mess that actually puts some of the responsibility back on Aaron. He had several opportunities to exercise good judgement. Like the first time he had to alter his virtual appearance to regain access after he had been discovered and cut off. They didn't yet know who it was. That was a huge missed opportunity right there. It all would have been over.

rhizome 14y ago

You're missing the "hey, I was just doing my job," part.

lclarkmichalek 14y ago
I never said the prosecutor could not be criticized.
- rhizome 14y ago
  The only reason she brought up Congress was to shift blame.