5 ms·

> The value in Ortiz "paying" is to show other prosecutors what can happen when they get over zealous what i got from the article is that Ortiz was not overzea

by andylei 14y ago

> The value in Ortiz "paying" is to show other prosecutors what can happen when they get over zealous what i got from the article is that Ortiz was not overzealous. she was doing what most prosecutors do all the time. why should we single her out? if we wanted to fire all prosecutors that used her tactics, we'd probably have to fire the majority of federal prosecutors.

SoftwareMaven 14y ago
Without involving Ortiz, what could we do that would get as much press as this has gotten? If the media has no interest, your cause is going nowhere, and the media won't be interested without names and faces to talk about. Besides, it is completely logical to believe she was overzealous and every other prosecutor is doing it. Just because everybody else is speeding, too, doesn't mean I won't get the ticket. Ortiz happens to be the one who got pulled over. (FWIW, I'd much prefer we not have to drag her or, really, anyone down. She is a real person with feelings and passions, and is, as you mention, acting within SOP for her position. I just don't see a way to start affecting change across the country without going through her [I'm not convinced the change can happen even doing that, but we need to try.]. I'm open to alternatives that can realistically gain momentum.)
- javajosh 14y ago
  You've managed, in two posts, to state almost precisely my own thoughts on this matter. It is indeed something of a shame to hold Ortiz personally liable for the system in which she learned her craft; and yet it seems that there is no better way to signal a strong, popular desire for that system to change than to end her (and Steve Hymann's) career. Given that their actions lead to the death of Aaron Swartz, personally, I wouldn't feel too bad for them. No-one is calling for disbarment, after all, so they have a cushy private practice to look forward to.
pseingatl 14y ago
This is the "everybody does it" defense. It won't work for criminal defendants and it won't work for Ortiz.
waterlesscloud 14y ago
Everyone does it because there are no consequences for doing so. If there are consequences, then suddenly everyone won't do it any more.

by andylei 14y ago

SoftwareMaven 14y ago

Without involving Ortiz, what could we do that would get as much press as this has gotten? If the media has no interest, your cause is going nowhere, and the media won't be interested without names and faces to talk about. Besides, it is completely logical to believe she was overzealous and every other prosecutor is doing it. Just because everybody else is speeding, too, doesn't mean I won't get the ticket. Ortiz happens to be the one who got pulled over. (FWIW, I'd much prefer we not have to drag her or, really, anyone down. She is a real person with feelings and passions, and is, as you mention, acting within SOP for her position. I just don't see a way to start affecting change across the country without going through her [I'm not convinced the change can happen even doing that, but we need to try.]. I'm open to alternatives that can realistically gain momentum.)

javajosh 14y ago
You've managed, in two posts, to state almost precisely my own thoughts on this matter. It is indeed something of a shame to hold Ortiz personally liable for the system in which she learned her craft; and yet it seems that there is no better way to signal a strong, popular desire for that system to change than to end her (and Steve Hymann's) career. Given that their actions lead to the death of Aaron Swartz, personally, I wouldn't feel too bad for them. No-one is calling for disbarment, after all, so they have a cushy private practice to look forward to.

pseingatl 14y ago

This is the "everybody does it" defense. It won't work for criminal defendants and it won't work for Ortiz.

waterlesscloud 14y ago

Everyone does it because there are no consequences for doing so. If there are consequences, then suddenly everyone won't do it any more.