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I'd expect more intelligent people, which this community claims to consist of, to not react the way it has to the events, with nothing but hyperbole and sensati

by tcuk 14y ago

I'd expect more intelligent people, which this community claims to consist of, to not react the way it has to the events, with nothing but hyperbole and sensationalism. The only clear concise analysis I have seen in the myriad of submissions was an analysis by Prof Orin Kerr, which was full of comments containing more hyperbole, that disappeared to no where instantly. Speaks volumes IMO, and it's really deterring to some of us who prefer learning and discussing the facts in a more well thought concise, clear, and logical manner.

detst 14y ago
I'd expect more intelligent people, which this community claims to consist of, to not react the way it has to the events, with nothing but hyperbole and sensationalism. Your first comment here on HN contains this: Even within this submission, the comments here still talk and insinuate Aaron was facing life imprisonment, danger to being raped daily, and suicide was his only option. Talk about hyperbole and sensationalism. There's been some of that but I've seen none of those three specific statements and if that's all you've got out of these discussions, you're seriously missing something. Just because you disagree doesn't make it all "hyperbole and sensationalism". People are emotional and justifiably angry. Maybe some of it has been a bit ridiculous but that doesn't invalidate the disgust with these events and with the larger systemic issues.
- tcuk 14y ago
  Honestly read the comments in the submission.. It was insane the amount of misinformation being thrown around. I'm sorry if my comment was exaggerated, I was just trying to highlight the issue.
  - codemac 14y ago
    Maybe the comments in the submission... were just trying to highlight the issues they saw. Don't defend exacting discourse with the very hyperbole you claim is destroying it. Let it be noted: I find immense irony in this discussion occurring in a thread where the parent comment is about how things need their context. What you're defining as misinformation needs to be taken in context.
  - smsm42 14y ago
    So exaggerating for you is just highlighting the issue, but exaggerating for everybody else is insane. I see how it works :)
- anigbrowl 14y ago
  I saw all such specific statements yesterday, albeit from different people. In particular, the argument that he was facing life imprisonment because the maximum possible term for the offenses he was charged with totaled 35 years was widely repeated. The news media does this all the time because big numbers sound most impressive, but the maximum sentence is only sought and handed down in a small minority of criminal cases.
  - smsm42 14y ago
    The fact that is handed down rarely does not mean it was not threatened. And the reason why it handed down rarely may very well be that others plead out, because they were scared of that maximum sentence - which was exactly the problem in this case, that he did not want to accept the plea.
lelandbatey 14y ago
I agree with much that you say. Sensationalism satisfies many of our base neurological desires. Indeed, I know that I share many thoughts with "sensationalists" and I responded similarly. I cannot make any statements of blame, since being sensationalist is to be human, as we all are. However, I'd ask that everyone please inform yourself as much as possible. The indictment is available [0]online and is well worth reading. [0] https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/217117-united-states-of-america-v-aaron-swartz https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/217117-united-states...
- nitrogen 14y ago
  If you want sensationalism, read a federal indictment. Their job isn't to paint a fair picture of the accused; it's to make the accused sound like scum.
- jack-r-abbit 14y ago
  Thanks for that. A good read. Assuming they had evidence to back that up (which both legal teams would have been privy to and would have been presented at trial), it seems pretty clear to me that he knew that what he was doing was not exactly above board there. I have little doubt Aaron knew what he was doing would get him in trouble if caught. Sure he probably did not expect that much trouble. We can be upset that he was possibly facing 35 (or what ever) years as that seems a bit excessive... but let's not pretend that Aaron had no clue that he was doing something he shouldn't be doing.
  - nitrogen 14y ago
    There's "shouldn't be doing" as in "will get you personally banned from MIT's network with a stern talking to from the IT department," and there's "shouldn't be doing" as in "will get you 35 years in federal prison." I'd wager Aaron expected the former, or maybe a post-it note on his laptop saying, "Please discontinue what you are doing; call xxx-yyy-zzzz with any questions."
    - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
ChuckMcM 14y ago
The challenge is that even a community that is 99.9% rational and intelligent people, leaves hundreds, maybe even a thousand irrational and outspoken people participating. Add to that the scourge of people who circumvent community guidance demand that their speech be heard, even when there are clear indications from the community that it is unwanted. Poses something of a challenge to the system as a whole. Side note: Are you, tcuk, really making all of these judgements based on being a member of this community for less than 48 hours?
- tcuk 14y ago
  Chuck could you provide an analysis of how this article ends up on the front page of here, specifically what value it adds to the situation and how relevant it is. To me I'm struggling to figure out how it relates to Aaron's case , is it purposefully being obtuse? Is it not obvious to everyone who's ever read anything to do with the case that the only reason spoofing his MAC address mattered was his intent to circumvent blocks placed on his connection? Actions by themselves are mostly meaningless it's the context and intent that matters...
jackpirate 14y ago
I'd expect more intelligent people, which this community claims to consist of, to not react the way it has to the events, with nothing but hyperbole and sensationalism. So it turns out "intelligent" people are first and foremost just people like everyone else. We need to remember our humanity and allow ourselves to be humbled by our flaws.
halfninety 14y ago
I can't stand the mob, sometimes I feel that they are insulting my intelligence. But no revolution is possible without them. When intelligent people come together and try to make a deal, that's called dirty politics.

by tcuk 14y ago

detst 14y ago

I'd expect more intelligent people, which this community claims to consist of, to not react the way it has to the events, with nothing but hyperbole and sensationalism. Your first comment here on HN contains this: Even within this submission, the comments here still talk and insinuate Aaron was facing life imprisonment, danger to being raped daily, and suicide was his only option. Talk about hyperbole and sensationalism. There's been some of that but I've seen none of those three specific statements and if that's all you've got out of these discussions, you're seriously missing something. Just because you disagree doesn't make it all "hyperbole and sensationalism". People are emotional and justifiably angry. Maybe some of it has been a bit ridiculous but that doesn't invalidate the disgust with these events and with the larger systemic issues.

tcuk 14y ago
Honestly read the comments in the submission.. It was insane the amount of misinformation being thrown around. I'm sorry if my comment was exaggerated, I was just trying to highlight the issue.
- codemac 14y ago
  Maybe the comments in the submission... were just trying to highlight the issues they saw. Don't defend exacting discourse with the very hyperbole you claim is destroying it. Let it be noted: I find immense irony in this discussion occurring in a thread where the parent comment is about how things need their context. What you're defining as misinformation needs to be taken in context.
- smsm42 14y ago
  So exaggerating for you is just highlighting the issue, but exaggerating for everybody else is insane. I see how it works :)
anigbrowl 14y ago
I saw all such specific statements yesterday, albeit from different people. In particular, the argument that he was facing life imprisonment because the maximum possible term for the offenses he was charged with totaled 35 years was widely repeated. The news media does this all the time because big numbers sound most impressive, but the maximum sentence is only sought and handed down in a small minority of criminal cases.
- smsm42 14y ago
  The fact that is handed down rarely does not mean it was not threatened. And the reason why it handed down rarely may very well be that others plead out, because they were scared of that maximum sentence - which was exactly the problem in this case, that he did not want to accept the plea.

lelandbatey 14y ago

I agree with much that you say. Sensationalism satisfies many of our base neurological desires. Indeed, I know that I share many thoughts with "sensationalists" and I responded similarly. I cannot make any statements of blame, since being sensationalist is to be human, as we all are. However, I'd ask that everyone please inform yourself as much as possible. The indictment is available [0]online and is well worth reading. [0] https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/217117-united-states-of-america-v-aaron-swartz https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/217117-united-states...

nitrogen 14y ago
If you want sensationalism, read a federal indictment. Their job isn't to paint a fair picture of the accused; it's to make the accused sound like scum.
jack-r-abbit 14y ago
Thanks for that. A good read. Assuming they had evidence to back that up (which both legal teams would have been privy to and would have been presented at trial), it seems pretty clear to me that he knew that what he was doing was not exactly above board there. I have little doubt Aaron knew what he was doing would get him in trouble if caught. Sure he probably did not expect that much trouble. We can be upset that he was possibly facing 35 (or what ever) years as that seems a bit excessive... but let's not pretend that Aaron had no clue that he was doing something he shouldn't be doing.
- nitrogen 14y ago
  There's "shouldn't be doing" as in "will get you personally banned from MIT's network with a stern talking to from the IT department," and there's "shouldn't be doing" as in "will get you 35 years in federal prison." I'd wager Aaron expected the former, or maybe a post-it note on his laptop saying, "Please discontinue what you are doing; call xxx-yyy-zzzz with any questions."
  - jack-r-abbit 14y ago

ChuckMcM 14y ago

The challenge is that even a community that is 99.9% rational and intelligent people, leaves hundreds, maybe even a thousand irrational and outspoken people participating. Add to that the scourge of people who circumvent community guidance demand that their speech be heard, even when there are clear indications from the community that it is unwanted. Poses something of a challenge to the system as a whole. Side note: Are you, tcuk, really making all of these judgements based on being a member of this community for less than 48 hours?

tcuk 14y ago
Chuck could you provide an analysis of how this article ends up on the front page of here, specifically what value it adds to the situation and how relevant it is. To me I'm struggling to figure out how it relates to Aaron's case , is it purposefully being obtuse? Is it not obvious to everyone who's ever read anything to do with the case that the only reason spoofing his MAC address mattered was his intent to circumvent blocks placed on his connection? Actions by themselves are mostly meaningless it's the context and intent that matters...

jackpirate 14y ago

I'd expect more intelligent people, which this community claims to consist of, to not react the way it has to the events, with nothing but hyperbole and sensationalism. So it turns out "intelligent" people are first and foremost just people like everyone else. We need to remember our humanity and allow ourselves to be humbled by our flaws.

halfninety 14y ago

I can't stand the mob, sometimes I feel that they are insulting my intelligence. But no revolution is possible without them. When intelligent people come together and try to make a deal, that's called dirty politics.