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Show HN: I Built An App to Teach Mind Control

43 points by burningion 14y ago

gverri 14y ago
Seems like a great app. Basically a timer with a heart rate tracker. Since the most important thing in meditation is respiration, and being respiration deeply connected to your heart rate, I think it could really make a difference in peoples lives. Would love to give it a try. There are plans for an Android version?
- burningion 14y ago
  Yes, I'm developing an Android version, but platform fragmentation is a bit scary. And yes, there's actually a breath bar in App to help you regulate your breathing. It animates in 5 second increments, allowing you to breath in steady patterns. At this point (two months of practice) I breath in 20 second increments (so four bars up and down).
  - strozykowski 14y ago
    Is there anywhere that an interested Android user could sign up to get an email when the Android version is available? I'd be happy to help beta test, and I'm sure other Android users would be interested in helping out as well.
    - fluidcruft 14y ago
      Bingo. We hear about some new iOS app and are interested but we're Android users. I would gladly give the developer my email so they can ask me to revisit this later if/when they've got something/anything for Android, but I'm not going to remember to come back to this or heaven forbid poll/monitor it.
    - burningion 14y ago
      Yep, woops, being a single founder of a company means you make dumb mistakes like this. I'll get one up right now. Edit: Done. http://eepurl.com/t7DzL http://eepurl.com/t7DzL
      - gverri 14y ago
        Subscribed!
      - QuantumGuy 14y ago
        I look forward to using your app
      - strozykowski 14y ago
        Thanks! Subscribed. It would be interesting to see what the subscription stats look like after a day/week.
      - engtech 14y ago
        I'm so happy you guys are using a real email address validation software! I just had to take over yet another person's itunes account this morning because they signed up using essentially my gmail address but with a period in it somewhere. I don't know where the trend to no longer validate email addresses came from, but it's made my life hell because I was able to get a firstname@gmail.com address while gmail was in beta. I'm looking forward to trying out the android version when you have it available.
duiker101 14y ago
That seems really cool. Android? Btw meditation is really important. More people should do it.
burningion 14y ago
Feel free to ask me any questions, thanks for all the comments. I have a blog post coming up about how I developed the concept using an Arduino and Clojure to measure my meditation. You can read a bit about that over at my blog: http://www.kpkaiser.com/mindhack/hacking-meditation-with-the-arduino/ http://www.kpkaiser.com/mindhack/hacking-meditation-with-the...
- peregrine 14y ago
  Nice article! Have you considered open sourcing your hardware design and components? And even your software? I'd love to start messing with things like this need a starting point.
  - burningion 14y ago
    Yes! I originally built this platform on an Arduino with some off the shelf components. I wanted to build a meditation device that works with Bluetooth LE, so all phones can use it, and really build the platform for meditation. You can read about it on my blog and sign up for more info. A post will be forthcoming, and I might do a kickstarter to give people startup kits to build their own meditation and mind experiments using measuring devices. http://www.kpkaiser.com/ http://www.kpkaiser.com/
- loeg 14y ago
  Looking at the heart rate charts on the front page, it seems that the rates during meditation are actually much higher on average (eyeballed at 92 bpm) than the rates while surfing the internet (eyeballed average of 75 bpm) (and while the meditation rates have a lower variance, their mean seems to be in about the same range as the absolute highest heart rates while surfing the web). As someone who knows nothing about meditation (but obviously I have some background assumptions), this is surprising to me. I would expect meditation to be relaxing, and I would expect to see lower, i.e., closer to resting heart rates (<60 bpm). Can you explain this?
  - burningion 14y ago
    Yes, sorry, that part was a bit weird. I'd taken that meditation from after I'd gone running. My normal meditations have heart rate variance between 66 and 96 BPM. Very good eye in observing the higher rate. And I'm not trying to judge or interpret anything from the data, I'm just giving to users to explore the ways in which meditation changes things for themselves.
jrosenblatt 14y ago
Can you provide a link to buy the heart rate monitor/easily see options available?
- burningion 14y ago
  Hey sorry, I meant to get that up too. So, during my testing I've found that the Polar H7 is really the best heart rate monitor, bar none. You don't need any electrode gel with it, it keeps perfect track of your heart, and it doesn't disconnect like some of the other monitors. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Polar-Bluetooth-Smart-Heart-Sensor/dp/B007S088F4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358360344&sr=8-1&keywords=polar+h7 http://www.amazon.com/Polar-Bluetooth-Smart-Heart-Sensor/dp/...
  - engtech 14y ago
    FYI, Polar H7 is iOS supported only. Android/Windows users should not buy one. http://www.polar.com/en/support/FAQs/H7_heart_rate_sensor_compatibility http://www.polar.com/en/support/FAQs/H7_heart_rate_sensor_co...
nsmartt 14y ago
This isn't compatible with my iPod Touch from July-- I haven't updated to iOS 6 and I don't have intentions of updating. Any chance it will be compatible later?
- burningion 14y ago
  Yes, sorry, this is the first app I built, and I kind of pushed it through while dealing with serious impacted wisdom teeth and surgery. It should already work with iOS 5, but I must have set the metadata wrong. I've added that fix to get working for you by the next release.
  - nsmartt 14y ago
    Thanks. I noticed it should work for iPhone 4S, so I thought I'd ask. Side note: I'm impressed that this is what you did after your surgery. I only managed a couple of small ruby scripts.
m_d 14y ago
Have you considered adding an Amazon affiliate link to the website for purchasing a Bluetooth heart rate monitor?
- joshwayne 14y ago
  This is an excellent suggestion. By doing more of the work for me by informing me which heart monitors work well with your system removes one of the common barrier with adopting a new system. That is, how much effort will it take to get this set up?
- burningion 14y ago
  Thanks for the suggestion! Added it to the site in a very basic way for now, will improve on that later.
cpeterso 14y ago
Very cool! I've long thought that mobile devices could make biofeedback, and other medical data monitoring, available to the general public. The phrase "mind control", however, may have negative connotations.
joshwayne 14y ago
I clicked on the link really excited about learning how to control the minds of my friends and family so I could finally get them to do my bidding but was slightly disappointed to learn it only helped me control my own mind. But seriously, I'm glad someone took the time to take something as beneficial as meditation and make its impact quantifiable. I'm excited to try it out.
- wikwocket 14y ago
  If an app designed to help you meditate is getting you really excited, is it a success or a failure?
  - harshreality 14y ago
    Yes.
roda 14y ago
This is a fantastic idea burnington! How hard is it to get multiple HR monitors to report to the same device? If it's doable then this style of app would be ideal for elite sports coaches.
- burningion 14y ago
  It's not that hard, and I'm already developing some cool stuff in this direction. Check out my blog to see where I'm going with this in the future: http://www.kpkaiser.com http://www.kpkaiser.com
miles 14y ago
Saying this app teaches "mind control" seems a bit disingenuous. Perhaps "heart rate control" (with additional hardware)? Without the additional hardware, the app is simply a meditation tracker. The Muse promises to monitor brain waves via mobile device: http://www.gizmag.com/interaxon-muse-brain-wave-headband/24667/ http://www.gizmag.com/interaxon-muse-brain-wave-headband/246... EDIT: Apparently there is already such a device on the market: http://www.neurosky.com/Products/MindWaveMobile.aspx http://www.neurosky.com/Products/MindWaveMobile.aspx I remember a similar but much cruder device in the mid-90s which used a glove and allowed basic control over a ski game via brain waves.
blissofbeing 14y ago
Interesting idea. Looking forward to the android app. Though I have to say I'm not convinced that your heart rate can tell you if your meditating 'correctly'. But its interesting data anyways. I would like to be able to upload my data anonymously and look at the aggregate data across many meditators to see if there are any trends.
xrd 14y ago
Thanks for doing this. I really have enjoyed your blog and your commitment to being mindful about the impact of technology on our attention and more broadly our lives.
kelvin0 14y ago
I really feel like the idea for this App is sincere, but it seems to be yet another technological 'tether' to our gadgets and material world. Meditation should not be 'gamefied' or at least not quantified in such a way... What next, you can post your results on FB? So wrong ...
- burningion 14y ago
  I've thought a lot about this very problem. In fact, I've spent the past 8 months or so thinking about that very issue. Here's the problem as I see it, and feel free to debate with me: Our digital worlds are a much more seductive reality than what we've got in the real world. Our minds simply weren't built to handle notifications everywhere, games which exploit our psychology, etc. We need new tools to help manage our minds in this new frontier. Because we simply don't get these addictive notifications in reality. And for evidence that this digital world is more seductive, just look at how many people have their faces in their phones. So what is the first step in helping us manage our minds more effectively? I researched all the data I could find, and it turned out meditation had the most potential. So I turned to meditation and said how could I improve the experience? This is my first iteration at giving us tools to improve control of our minds. Its a very basic tool, and I'm very aware of the potential downfalls. I'm willing to hear any advice you or anyone else has on the future of mind analysis with tracking devices.
  - kelvin0 14y ago
    I think some comments mention how this could be useful to track the heart rate (Athletes?Babies?Elderly people?) and surely that seems like a great idea. And of course I don't think any harm can come to someone using your app. It's certainly 'something' on a wishy washy path to some enlightenment through external means ... The mindset that a person must acquire in order to meditate and truly benefit from it, cannot be attained with an App, as the very 'thing' is yet another obstacle to detachment. In any event I wish you all the luck in the world on your own path ...
    - burningion 14y ago
hkarthik 14y ago
Pretty cool that you launched iOS and Android together. Did you use a cross platform toolkit to do so?
hariis 14y ago
very nice. is there a sdk from Polar? How do you go about writing such apps that talk to HRM? Thanks
- burningion 14y ago
  Hey hariss, So there isn't an API for this from Polar. Instead, it's a Bluetooth LE device you'll need to find and sync with. Bluetooth LE is really exciting in that it's the first wireless communication available that is completely open on iOS devices. If you need help getting started, email me. My email is my username at gmail dot com
mcculley 14y ago
Excellent! I was already tinkering with building an app to monitor heart rate using this exact sensor. Now I don't have to finish the app.
mcculley 14y ago
I just bought this and will try it out tomorrow, but I'm a little disappointed to see that viewing previous sessions requires that I create an account. Does that mean the only way to track my progress is by uploading my data to your site?
- burningion 14y ago
  Unfortunately, for this release the answer is yes. But there will be an update out in the next week to allow you to keep everything private and stored on the device. Thanks for downloading and thanks for your patience!

43 points by burningion 14y ago

Seems like a great app. Basically a timer with a heart rate tracker. Since the most important thing in meditation is respiration, and being respiration deeply connected to your heart rate, I think it could really make a difference in peoples lives. Would love to give it a try. There are plans for an Android version?

burningion 14y ago
Yes, I'm developing an Android version, but platform fragmentation is a bit scary. And yes, there's actually a breath bar in App to help you regulate your breathing. It animates in 5 second increments, allowing you to breath in steady patterns. At this point (two months of practice) I breath in 20 second increments (so four bars up and down).
- strozykowski 14y ago
  Is there anywhere that an interested Android user could sign up to get an email when the Android version is available? I'd be happy to help beta test, and I'm sure other Android users would be interested in helping out as well.
  - fluidcruft 14y ago
    Bingo. We hear about some new iOS app and are interested but we're Android users. I would gladly give the developer my email so they can ask me to revisit this later if/when they've got something/anything for Android, but I'm not going to remember to come back to this or heaven forbid poll/monitor it.
  - burningion 14y ago
    Yep, woops, being a single founder of a company means you make dumb mistakes like this. I'll get one up right now. Edit: Done. http://eepurl.com/t7DzL http://eepurl.com/t7DzL
    - gverri 14y ago
      Subscribed!
    - QuantumGuy 14y ago
      I look forward to using your app
    - strozykowski 14y ago
      Thanks! Subscribed. It would be interesting to see what the subscription stats look like after a day/week.
    - engtech 14y ago
      I'm so happy you guys are using a real email address validation software! I just had to take over yet another person's itunes account this morning because they signed up using essentially my gmail address but with a period in it somewhere. I don't know where the trend to no longer validate email addresses came from, but it's made my life hell because I was able to get a firstname@gmail.com address while gmail was in beta. I'm looking forward to trying out the android version when you have it available.

duiker101 14y ago

That seems really cool. Android? Btw meditation is really important. More people should do it.

burningion 14y ago

Feel free to ask me any questions, thanks for all the comments. I have a blog post coming up about how I developed the concept using an Arduino and Clojure to measure my meditation. You can read a bit about that over at my blog: http://www.kpkaiser.com/mindhack/hacking-meditation-with-the-arduino/ http://www.kpkaiser.com/mindhack/hacking-meditation-with-the...

peregrine 14y ago
Nice article! Have you considered open sourcing your hardware design and components? And even your software? I'd love to start messing with things like this need a starting point.
- burningion 14y ago
  Yes! I originally built this platform on an Arduino with some off the shelf components. I wanted to build a meditation device that works with Bluetooth LE, so all phones can use it, and really build the platform for meditation. You can read about it on my blog and sign up for more info. A post will be forthcoming, and I might do a kickstarter to give people startup kits to build their own meditation and mind experiments using measuring devices. http://www.kpkaiser.com/ http://www.kpkaiser.com/
loeg 14y ago
Looking at the heart rate charts on the front page, it seems that the rates during meditation are actually much higher on average (eyeballed at 92 bpm) than the rates while surfing the internet (eyeballed average of 75 bpm) (and while the meditation rates have a lower variance, their mean seems to be in about the same range as the absolute highest heart rates while surfing the web). As someone who knows nothing about meditation (but obviously I have some background assumptions), this is surprising to me. I would expect meditation to be relaxing, and I would expect to see lower, i.e., closer to resting heart rates (<60 bpm). Can you explain this?
- burningion 14y ago
  Yes, sorry, that part was a bit weird. I'd taken that meditation from after I'd gone running. My normal meditations have heart rate variance between 66 and 96 BPM. Very good eye in observing the higher rate. And I'm not trying to judge or interpret anything from the data, I'm just giving to users to explore the ways in which meditation changes things for themselves.

jrosenblatt 14y ago

Can you provide a link to buy the heart rate monitor/easily see options available?

burningion 14y ago
Hey sorry, I meant to get that up too. So, during my testing I've found that the Polar H7 is really the best heart rate monitor, bar none. You don't need any electrode gel with it, it keeps perfect track of your heart, and it doesn't disconnect like some of the other monitors. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Polar-Bluetooth-Smart-Heart-Sensor/dp/B007S088F4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358360344&sr=8-1&keywords=polar+h7 http://www.amazon.com/Polar-Bluetooth-Smart-Heart-Sensor/dp/...
- engtech 14y ago
  FYI, Polar H7 is iOS supported only. Android/Windows users should not buy one. http://www.polar.com/en/support/FAQs/H7_heart_rate_sensor_compatibility http://www.polar.com/en/support/FAQs/H7_heart_rate_sensor_co...

nsmartt 14y ago

This isn't compatible with my iPod Touch from July-- I haven't updated to iOS 6 and I don't have intentions of updating. Any chance it will be compatible later?

burningion 14y ago
Yes, sorry, this is the first app I built, and I kind of pushed it through while dealing with serious impacted wisdom teeth and surgery. It should already work with iOS 5, but I must have set the metadata wrong. I've added that fix to get working for you by the next release.
- nsmartt 14y ago
  Thanks. I noticed it should work for iPhone 4S, so I thought I'd ask. Side note: I'm impressed that this is what you did after your surgery. I only managed a couple of small ruby scripts.

m_d 14y ago

Have you considered adding an Amazon affiliate link to the website for purchasing a Bluetooth heart rate monitor?

joshwayne 14y ago
This is an excellent suggestion. By doing more of the work for me by informing me which heart monitors work well with your system removes one of the common barrier with adopting a new system. That is, how much effort will it take to get this set up?
burningion 14y ago
Thanks for the suggestion! Added it to the site in a very basic way for now, will improve on that later.

cpeterso 14y ago

Very cool! I've long thought that mobile devices could make biofeedback, and other medical data monitoring, available to the general public. The phrase "mind control", however, may have negative connotations.

joshwayne 14y ago

I clicked on the link really excited about learning how to control the minds of my friends and family so I could finally get them to do my bidding but was slightly disappointed to learn it only helped me control my own mind. But seriously, I'm glad someone took the time to take something as beneficial as meditation and make its impact quantifiable. I'm excited to try it out.

wikwocket 14y ago
If an app designed to help you meditate is getting you really excited, is it a success or a failure?
- harshreality 14y ago
  Yes.

roda 14y ago

This is a fantastic idea burnington! How hard is it to get multiple HR monitors to report to the same device? If it's doable then this style of app would be ideal for elite sports coaches.

burningion 14y ago
It's not that hard, and I'm already developing some cool stuff in this direction. Check out my blog to see where I'm going with this in the future: http://www.kpkaiser.com http://www.kpkaiser.com

miles 14y ago

Saying this app teaches "mind control" seems a bit disingenuous. Perhaps "heart rate control" (with additional hardware)? Without the additional hardware, the app is simply a meditation tracker. The Muse promises to monitor brain waves via mobile device: http://www.gizmag.com/interaxon-muse-brain-wave-headband/24667/ http://www.gizmag.com/interaxon-muse-brain-wave-headband/246... EDIT: Apparently there is already such a device on the market: http://www.neurosky.com/Products/MindWaveMobile.aspx http://www.neurosky.com/Products/MindWaveMobile.aspx I remember a similar but much cruder device in the mid-90s which used a glove and allowed basic control over a ski game via brain waves.

blissofbeing 14y ago

Interesting idea. Looking forward to the android app. Though I have to say I'm not convinced that your heart rate can tell you if your meditating 'correctly'. But its interesting data anyways. I would like to be able to upload my data anonymously and look at the aggregate data across many meditators to see if there are any trends.

xrd 14y ago

Thanks for doing this. I really have enjoyed your blog and your commitment to being mindful about the impact of technology on our attention and more broadly our lives.

kelvin0 14y ago

I really feel like the idea for this App is sincere, but it seems to be yet another technological 'tether' to our gadgets and material world. Meditation should not be 'gamefied' or at least not quantified in such a way... What next, you can post your results on FB? So wrong ...

burningion 14y ago
I've thought a lot about this very problem. In fact, I've spent the past 8 months or so thinking about that very issue. Here's the problem as I see it, and feel free to debate with me: Our digital worlds are a much more seductive reality than what we've got in the real world. Our minds simply weren't built to handle notifications everywhere, games which exploit our psychology, etc. We need new tools to help manage our minds in this new frontier. Because we simply don't get these addictive notifications in reality. And for evidence that this digital world is more seductive, just look at how many people have their faces in their phones. So what is the first step in helping us manage our minds more effectively? I researched all the data I could find, and it turned out meditation had the most potential. So I turned to meditation and said how could I improve the experience? This is my first iteration at giving us tools to improve control of our minds. Its a very basic tool, and I'm very aware of the potential downfalls. I'm willing to hear any advice you or anyone else has on the future of mind analysis with tracking devices.
- kelvin0 14y ago
  I think some comments mention how this could be useful to track the heart rate (Athletes?Babies?Elderly people?) and surely that seems like a great idea. And of course I don't think any harm can come to someone using your app. It's certainly 'something' on a wishy washy path to some enlightenment through external means ... The mindset that a person must acquire in order to meditate and truly benefit from it, cannot be attained with an App, as the very 'thing' is yet another obstacle to detachment. In any event I wish you all the luck in the world on your own path ...
  - burningion 14y ago

hkarthik 14y ago

Pretty cool that you launched iOS and Android together. Did you use a cross platform toolkit to do so?

hariis 14y ago

very nice. is there a sdk from Polar? How do you go about writing such apps that talk to HRM? Thanks

burningion 14y ago
Hey hariss, So there isn't an API for this from Polar. Instead, it's a Bluetooth LE device you'll need to find and sync with. Bluetooth LE is really exciting in that it's the first wireless communication available that is completely open on iOS devices. If you need help getting started, email me. My email is my username at gmail dot com

mcculley 14y ago

Excellent! I was already tinkering with building an app to monitor heart rate using this exact sensor. Now I don't have to finish the app.

mcculley 14y ago

I just bought this and will try it out tomorrow, but I'm a little disappointed to see that viewing previous sessions requires that I create an account. Does that mean the only way to track my progress is by uploading my data to your site?

burningion 14y ago
Unfortunately, for this release the answer is yes. But there will be an update out in the next week to allow you to keep everything private and stored on the device. Thanks for downloading and thanks for your patience!