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> 3. Fix bugs in the open source projects you use. > I’ve never taken a hard look at the Apache source code before, but I have found a few bugs in Apache that

by adam-a 14y ago

> 3. Fix bugs in the open source projects you use. > I’ve never taken a hard look at the Apache source code before, but I have found a few bugs in Apache that I’d love to have fixed How can you take this advice if the author doesn't even follow it himself? Seems like a shallow recycled piece designed to promote the author's eBook.

saturnflyer 14y ago
does that make this a bad idea?
- tangue 14y ago
  Not really it's a good advice BUT this book is targeted at wanabee php developers. Telling them to patch Apache is a very bad idea. He should have chosen phpBB or something like that. You could think that people are smart enough to understand that they can't patch the most used webserver in the world like that, but hey, remember that Dunning–Kruger effect ?
  - saturnflyer 14y ago
    He says: "Working with others to get patches accepted and bugs closed is a crucial skill in writing good code" This article does not tell people to patch Apache. The point, as for as I can tell, is to explore the projects you use so you can learn to write better code. Then you say "they can't patch the most used webserver in the world like that" What is "like that"? As far as I can tell it's "working with others". Although I've never patched Apache, I'm confident I'll need to work with others to do so. The article gives good advice. I don't understand why you would jump to the Dunning–Kruger effect to seemingly assume that the readers are incapable of following the advice.
    - tangue 14y ago
      >This article does not tell people to patch Apache. The >point, as for as I can tell, is to explore the projects you >use so you can learn to write better code. You're right. But saying something like "I’ve never taken a hard look at the Apache source code before, but I have found a few bugs in Apache that I’d love to have fixed." is like launching a stick in front of a dog. >The article gives good advice. I don't understand why you >would jump to the Dunning–Kruger effect to seemingly assume >that the readers are incapable of following the advice. It's a book about php. Don't tell me about Composer, Symfony or other things that 0,1% of php coders are using. Php coders don't read, they cut'n'paste.
      - saturnflyer 14y ago
        The article is about writing better code. My guess is that the PHP developers who do want to write better code would probably take the advice. Is your point that nobody should ever suggest that PHP developers write better code?
        tangue 14y ago
        People wo could write better code in php have already learned how to write better code in other languages. I don't even see the point of this book. Learning to write good code with php looks to me like learning ornithology with Angry Birds
        tangue 14y ago
        Yes downvote me php people, but have a look at php code on github "https://github.com/search?q=mysql_connect&p=1&ref=searchbar&type=Code&l= https://github.com/search?q=mysql_connect&p=1&ref=se... and tell me what you're thinking about it.
brandonsavage 14y ago
Through my work at Mozilla, I regularly contribute to a large number of open source projects. I do my best to follow my own advice, but I'm always working to do better. Sadly sometimes there just aren't enough hours in the day!
barakstout 14y ago
I don't think that qualifies. I think fixing bugs in open source is a good way to become a better programmer, but if you are fixing those bugs you are a good programmer already. Fixing bugs in open source project is really not trivial. I wouldn't know where to even begin looking at the source code of some of the open source I use, for example Firefox.
freework 14y ago
I think starting your own open source project works to better improve your programming skills that contributing to existing open source projects. Existing projects already have most of the code already written. A typical open source changeset is maybe 3 +'s and 5 -'s. Mostly contributing to open source projects will improve your people/communication skills because most of that you'll do it is talking to existing developers to understand the problem/how to debug the problem.
jlkinsel 14y ago
What's the Apache source code? You mean Apache httpd? :) Realize "Apache" means the Apache Software Foundation, which is made up of a large collection of open source projects. (disclosure: Apache CloudStack contributor and PPMC member)
- ternaryoperator 14y ago
  I understand and generally agree with your point. However, if we're going to slide and dice, it should be pointed out that the Apache Software Foundation (founded in 1999) was named after the Apache web server (1995), not the other way around. So, if the context clearly suggests the web server, as it does here, I think he's OK.

by adam-a 14y ago

saturnflyer 14y ago

does that make this a bad idea?

tangue 14y ago
Not really it's a good advice BUT this book is targeted at wanabee php developers. Telling them to patch Apache is a very bad idea. He should have chosen phpBB or something like that. You could think that people are smart enough to understand that they can't patch the most used webserver in the world like that, but hey, remember that Dunning–Kruger effect ?
- saturnflyer 14y ago
  He says: "Working with others to get patches accepted and bugs closed is a crucial skill in writing good code" This article does not tell people to patch Apache. The point, as for as I can tell, is to explore the projects you use so you can learn to write better code. Then you say "they can't patch the most used webserver in the world like that" What is "like that"? As far as I can tell it's "working with others". Although I've never patched Apache, I'm confident I'll need to work with others to do so. The article gives good advice. I don't understand why you would jump to the Dunning–Kruger effect to seemingly assume that the readers are incapable of following the advice.
  - tangue 14y ago
    >This article does not tell people to patch Apache. The >point, as for as I can tell, is to explore the projects you >use so you can learn to write better code. You're right. But saying something like "I’ve never taken a hard look at the Apache source code before, but I have found a few bugs in Apache that I’d love to have fixed." is like launching a stick in front of a dog. >The article gives good advice. I don't understand why you >would jump to the Dunning–Kruger effect to seemingly assume >that the readers are incapable of following the advice. It's a book about php. Don't tell me about Composer, Symfony or other things that 0,1% of php coders are using. Php coders don't read, they cut'n'paste.
    - saturnflyer 14y ago
      The article is about writing better code. My guess is that the PHP developers who do want to write better code would probably take the advice. Is your point that nobody should ever suggest that PHP developers write better code?
      - tangue 14y ago
        People wo could write better code in php have already learned how to write better code in other languages. I don't even see the point of this book. Learning to write good code with php looks to me like learning ornithology with Angry Birds
        tangue 14y ago
        Yes downvote me php people, but have a look at php code on github "https://github.com/search?q=mysql_connect&p=1&ref=searchbar&type=Code&l= https://github.com/search?q=mysql_connect&p=1&ref=se... and tell me what you're thinking about it.

brandonsavage 14y ago

Through my work at Mozilla, I regularly contribute to a large number of open source projects. I do my best to follow my own advice, but I'm always working to do better. Sadly sometimes there just aren't enough hours in the day!

barakstout 14y ago

I don't think that qualifies. I think fixing bugs in open source is a good way to become a better programmer, but if you are fixing those bugs you are a good programmer already. Fixing bugs in open source project is really not trivial. I wouldn't know where to even begin looking at the source code of some of the open source I use, for example Firefox.

freework 14y ago

I think starting your own open source project works to better improve your programming skills that contributing to existing open source projects. Existing projects already have most of the code already written. A typical open source changeset is maybe 3 +'s and 5 -'s. Mostly contributing to open source projects will improve your people/communication skills because most of that you'll do it is talking to existing developers to understand the problem/how to debug the problem.

jlkinsel 14y ago

What's the Apache source code? You mean Apache httpd? :) Realize "Apache" means the Apache Software Foundation, which is made up of a large collection of open source projects. (disclosure: Apache CloudStack contributor and PPMC member)

ternaryoperator 14y ago
I understand and generally agree with your point. However, if we're going to slide and dice, it should be pointed out that the Apache Software Foundation (founded in 1999) was named after the Apache web server (1995), not the other way around. So, if the context clearly suggests the web server, as it does here, I think he's OK.