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Please 'know' before taking sides. It's easy to comment, and opine, than to know. Here are some insights from Wikipedia: US has had the highest incarceration r

Please 'know' before taking sides. It's easy to comment, and opine, than to know. Here are some insights from Wikipedia: US has had the highest incarceration rate in past decade [1]. Why so? Does it mean more percentage of citizens are lately turning into what one would qualify as a criminal, a thief or a murderer? Or otherwise. Quoting from Wikipedia: A. "The United States has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population." B. "imprisons a larger percentage of its black population than South Africa did at the height of apartheid" C. A graph showing a strange spike: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_incarceration_timeline-clean-fixed-timescale.svg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_incarceration_timeline-... etc. etc. etc. Also consider these - is it is profitable for a section/group of people (read prosecutors or ip enforcers) to persecute and push people over using tricks like applying one set of laws, if another set of laws couldn't be applied? Is it like we have provision for cheapness in trials, but none for justice or humanity. Is the intention of a trial to set an example, or to be fair? Is it not criminal wastage of money, time and talent this way? I mean these are intricate details that reveal something is wrong at leadership level. Related to the direction of the country. This is not a working level problem which is where students, staff, entrepreneurs and hackers lie. Ponder. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_Sta... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_James http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_James [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rat... [Edits: Grammar, tone and with inputs from Ars below.]

ars 14y ago
What does this have to do with what jamesaguilar posted? > No. Surely, something else is broken. Really? There are no other options you can think of? Perhaps the US is simply stricter? I quote from the article this image is from: "Still, it is the length of sentences that truly distinguishes American prison policy. Indeed, the mere number of sentences imposed here would not place the United States at the top of the incarceration lists." So yup, the US is stricter, but it does not have more criminals, nor does it imprison more people. > A graph showing a strange spike There is no spike, this is the result of using a linear graph when it should have been a logarithmic one. (A very common mistake, and also frequently employed when trying to make a point without support in the data.) In this particular graph even better would be to normalize to the population level, but logarithmic is also OK. Either way, if you fix the graph you will find no spike. This graph is better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._incarceration_rates_1925_onwards.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._incarceration_rates_1... It shows an increase, but no spike. So why the increase? And especially why has it slowed down? Read this and you shall know: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5006368 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5006368
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- BrokenPipe 14y ago
  Increase ? Why does that look to me like a spike ? And are you denying either of these claims ? Because if not it seems like you are just nitpicking to me, the point of the parent is still fully correct regardless of the graph. A. "The United States has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population." B. "imprisons a larger percentage of its black population than South Africa did at the height of apartheid"
  - ars 14y ago
    No, the point of the parent is not correct. The parent is implying that the US manipulates things so that innocent people go to prison. This is not the case. There is also no spike, but rather an increase followed by leveling off. The US does keep people in prison longer than other nations, there is no dispute there. But it does not imprison more people than other nations. This is a subtle but very important difference.
    - BrokenPipe 14y ago
      The US does imprison more people than other nations according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcerat... And whether the US keeps people in prison longer than other nations or not, doesn't really help you case IMHO.
      - ars 14y ago
        Go back and read it again. This list of not the number of different people who go to prison, it's the percentage at any given moment. So a longer sentence will inflate the numbers on this list.
        BrokenPipe 14y ago
jamesaguilar 14y ago
This is totally irrelevant to what I said.
- monsterix 14y ago
  Yeah actually the relevant line got weeded out as I progressed with editing, research and more editing. While suggesting to 'know', I got to know it myself too.

ars 14y ago

What does this have to do with what jamesaguilar posted? > No. Surely, something else is broken. Really? There are no other options you can think of? Perhaps the US is simply stricter? I quote from the article this image is from: "Still, it is the length of sentences that truly distinguishes American prison policy. Indeed, the mere number of sentences imposed here would not place the United States at the top of the incarceration lists." So yup, the US is stricter, but it does not have more criminals, nor does it imprison more people. > A graph showing a strange spike There is no spike, this is the result of using a linear graph when it should have been a logarithmic one. (A very common mistake, and also frequently employed when trying to make a point without support in the data.) In this particular graph even better would be to normalize to the population level, but logarithmic is also OK. Either way, if you fix the graph you will find no spike. This graph is better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._incarceration_rates_1925_onwards.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._incarceration_rates_1... It shows an increase, but no spike. So why the increase? And especially why has it slowed down? Read this and you shall know: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5006368 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5006368

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
BrokenPipe 14y ago
Increase ? Why does that look to me like a spike ? And are you denying either of these claims ? Because if not it seems like you are just nitpicking to me, the point of the parent is still fully correct regardless of the graph. A. "The United States has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population." B. "imprisons a larger percentage of its black population than South Africa did at the height of apartheid"
- ars 14y ago
  No, the point of the parent is not correct. The parent is implying that the US manipulates things so that innocent people go to prison. This is not the case. There is also no spike, but rather an increase followed by leveling off. The US does keep people in prison longer than other nations, there is no dispute there. But it does not imprison more people than other nations. This is a subtle but very important difference.
  - BrokenPipe 14y ago
    The US does imprison more people than other nations according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcerat... And whether the US keeps people in prison longer than other nations or not, doesn't really help you case IMHO.
    - ars 14y ago
      Go back and read it again. This list of not the number of different people who go to prison, it's the percentage at any given moment. So a longer sentence will inflate the numbers on this list.
      - BrokenPipe 14y ago

jamesaguilar 14y ago

This is totally irrelevant to what I said.

monsterix 14y ago
Yeah actually the relevant line got weeded out as I progressed with editing, research and more editing. While suggesting to 'know', I got to know it myself too.