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This just feels like mob mentality to me. Someone messed up, albeit badly. I would guess the guy feels bad enough as it is without needing to get 25k people t

by kule 14y ago

This just feels like mob mentality to me. Someone messed up, albeit badly. I would guess the guy feels bad enough as it is without needing to get 25k people to kick him when he's down. EDIT: I guess what I'd really hope to have seen (not being a US citizen) is some petitions to get the laws/system changed rather than looking for someone to blame.

rustynails77 14y ago
I see it differently. This person behaved extremely aggressively and clearly unethically. You want them to get off free? If nothing is done, this person will show remorse for a short time, and then be right back in the game. In my industry, some choose to behave unethically - even if it's within the bounds of the rules. I like to see these people smacked down because they -choose- to behave an a nasty manner.
dredmorbius 14y ago
And here's why I disagree: - The US is a democracy. Our government, elected, appointed, or career civil servants, is accountable to the people. - The position of prosecutor has great power, and we all know that that requires great responsibility. Prosecutors can destroy reputations, livelihoods, lives, families, and more. Choosing on whom to bring the full strength of the US government to bear, and how much of that strength to loose at a particular target, is part of the critical judgment required for the position. Proper prosecutorial discretion has been shown sorely lacking in this (and other) protest-oriented hacking incidents. I'll be happy to let Otiz, Haymann, and Garland speak for themselves to let us know just how badly they feel. To date, I've seen no word from any of them. Speaking to your edit: there is a petition to change elements of the CFAA that the EFF has identified as particularly problematic: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/reform-computer-fraud-and-abuse-act-reflect-realities-computing-and-networks-2013/qMvdwVNw https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/reform-computer-fr... https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/01/aaron-swartz-fix-draconian-computer-crime-law https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/01/aaron-swartz-fix-draco... http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5064448 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5064448
vidarh 14y ago
"Feeling badly" is not enough. If they make statements to the effect that they've understood and learned from the experience that prosecuting these types of cases in this manner is bad, then maybe. As it is, we have no reason to believe they won't do the same again, and again, if left unchecked.
jessaustin 14y ago
I would guess the guy feels bad enough as it is without needing to get 25k people to kick him when he's down. If a federal prosecutor had ever in history allowed that consideration ("he feels bad enough as it is") to temper his zealous persecution of innocent people, then we might consider similar leniency for him. Since it has never happened, we don't need to worry about it.
jordanb 14y ago
Peacefully petitioning one's government to remove an appointed official is kinda odd behavior for a mob, isn't it?
wglb 14y ago
I would guess the guy feels bad enough Nothing that I have seen suggests that he feels badly at all. Swartz’s attorney Elliot Peters accused Heymann of aggressively pursuing Swartz because the case “"was going to receive press and he was going to be a tough guy and read his name in the newspaper." There are attorneys, some of them prosecutors, that get a kick out of pulling wings off of flies.
johnbellone 14y ago
There needs to be a precedent set that this is unacceptable. Unfortunately I have a feeling that the Obama administration will respond with something to the effect of "no comment."
greghinch 14y ago
Just to echo the other responses, the US functions as a representative government, with those representatives (and in this case their appointees) accountable to the people. When one of those in office abuses that power for personal gain, we are absolutely supposed to take action to have that power stripped from them. Granted it doesn't happen that way often, but this is an opportunity to do so. The laws should be changed as well, but that doesn't absolve an individual who acted irresponsibly for his own gain

by kule 14y ago

rustynails77 14y ago

I see it differently. This person behaved extremely aggressively and clearly unethically. You want them to get off free? If nothing is done, this person will show remorse for a short time, and then be right back in the game. In my industry, some choose to behave unethically - even if it's within the bounds of the rules. I like to see these people smacked down because they -choose- to behave an a nasty manner.

dredmorbius 14y ago

And here's why I disagree: - The US is a democracy. Our government, elected, appointed, or career civil servants, is accountable to the people. - The position of prosecutor has great power, and we all know that that requires great responsibility. Prosecutors can destroy reputations, livelihoods, lives, families, and more. Choosing on whom to bring the full strength of the US government to bear, and how much of that strength to loose at a particular target, is part of the critical judgment required for the position. Proper prosecutorial discretion has been shown sorely lacking in this (and other) protest-oriented hacking incidents. I'll be happy to let Otiz, Haymann, and Garland speak for themselves to let us know just how badly they feel. To date, I've seen no word from any of them. Speaking to your edit: there is a petition to change elements of the CFAA that the EFF has identified as particularly problematic: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/reform-computer-fraud-and-abuse-act-reflect-realities-computing-and-networks-2013/qMvdwVNw https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/reform-computer-fr... https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/01/aaron-swartz-fix-draconian-computer-crime-law https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/01/aaron-swartz-fix-draco... http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5064448 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5064448

vidarh 14y ago

"Feeling badly" is not enough. If they make statements to the effect that they've understood and learned from the experience that prosecuting these types of cases in this manner is bad, then maybe. As it is, we have no reason to believe they won't do the same again, and again, if left unchecked.

jessaustin 14y ago

I would guess the guy feels bad enough as it is without needing to get 25k people to kick him when he's down. If a federal prosecutor had ever in history allowed that consideration ("he feels bad enough as it is") to temper his zealous persecution of innocent people, then we might consider similar leniency for him. Since it has never happened, we don't need to worry about it.

jordanb 14y ago

Peacefully petitioning one's government to remove an appointed official is kinda odd behavior for a mob, isn't it?

wglb 14y ago

I would guess the guy feels bad enough Nothing that I have seen suggests that he feels badly at all. Swartz’s attorney Elliot Peters accused Heymann of aggressively pursuing Swartz because the case “"was going to receive press and he was going to be a tough guy and read his name in the newspaper." There are attorneys, some of them prosecutors, that get a kick out of pulling wings off of flies.

johnbellone 14y ago

There needs to be a precedent set that this is unacceptable. Unfortunately I have a feeling that the Obama administration will respond with something to the effect of "no comment."

greghinch 14y ago

Just to echo the other responses, the US functions as a representative government, with those representatives (and in this case their appointees) accountable to the people. When one of those in office abuses that power for personal gain, we are absolutely supposed to take action to have that power stripped from them. Granted it doesn't happen that way often, but this is an opportunity to do so. The laws should be changed as well, but that doesn't absolve an individual who acted irresponsibly for his own gain